LutetiumWell let's get started. I want to welcome Simon Jansen to the Hack Chat today. He's he to talk about his awesome Enigma watch builds, but he's got a TON of other hacks under his belt too. So I'm sure we'll have a ton of questions for him.
Simon, can you tell us a little about yourself?
Hi, sure. Well, I live in Wellington, New Zealand.
Hello @Simon Jansen :-)
hello!
NZ ftw!
My day job is as a software engineer and I have been a tester and a developer in the past. Now I specialise in test automation.
putting this link in here:
http://www.asciimation.co.nz/bb/2015/03/24/a-three-rotor-enigma-machine-wrist-watch
Asciimation
March 24th, 2015 This is one of the most satisfying projects I have done I think. Mainly because this is a real device and something so historically important. It is a fully functioning Enigma machine you can wear on your wrist. This is a three rotor Enigma machine as used by German Wermacht in WW2 for encoding messages.
And I guess I have always been a science geek/tinkerer.
@Jarrett - Thanks! Just about to post that myself.
The Enigma interest is a fairly recent one for me.
I knew a little about it before since I was always into WW1/WW2 type stuff. And also being a computer scientist I of course knew about Alan Turing. When the Imitation Game film came out I went to see it of course. And was annoyed at all the things I knew were inaccurate in it.
*subscribed*
Enigma fascinates me. The idea that so much hinged on one machine...
So it got me into finding out how the Turing Welchman Bombe really worked. And to understand that you first need to understand Enigma.
Was that the one with Benadryl Cumberbund?
It's an interesting machine since it is both so simple and so complicated at the same time.
Cumberbund Bitchslap, yes.
lol
Guy has the most mangleable name and everyone still knows who you mean!
Love playing with that name
The film is good, I enjoyed it. But of course it's not a documentary.
Enigma always impressed me a "just one more thing" build.
Like they just kept adding stuff until it was sufficiently complicated.
The Germans were quite arrogant and they were always convinced about it's security.
aren't we all today as well?
I think only Karl Donitz had doubts about it which is why the naval one had extra complications.
These days I assume most things are insecure if someone really wants to get into it.
I like Enigma since it is an electromechanical machine and the mechanics add a few quirks into how it behaves.
so you make a token effort of "reasonably" securing it by "industry standards" and don't really care more than that
and that's exactly what they did back then as well
Absolutely. I guess social engineering was harder when at war with your target.
I think a lot of the IOT makers don't even do that.
well, different people have different ideas about what "reasonable" means
Hi all
was the Enigma machine German made? I recall thinking it was Swiss
it was German
@Mike Walters The story around what the British called Ultra, the intelligence they got from Enigma, describes a lot about that.
I see
But it was the social reverse engineering around Enigma I find fascinating. The way the Allies had to hide what they gleaned from German traffic so as not to tip their hands.
and it actually existed before the war, as a commercial offering
It's complicated. The idea was patented by someone then someone else took it over.
that's how they were able to figure out the construction
yeah, banking used it I believe
And yes, it was a commercial machine initially.
Without the plug board.
the military version was more complex, adding more cylinders
is the plug board that important, though?
I mean, it's just a simple caesar cipher, no?
They knew the basic construction from patents and the Poles also managed to 'hold one up in customs' and examine it.
https://hackaday.com/2017/08/22/the-enigma-enigma-how-the-enigma-machine-worked/
The Enigma Enigma: How The Enigma Machine Worked
To many, the Enigma machine is an enigma. But it's really quite simple. The following is a step-by-step explanation of how it works, from the basics to the full machine. Possibly the greatest dedicated cipher machine in human history the Enigma machine is a typewriter-sized machine, with keyboard included, that the Germans used to encrypt and decrypt messages during World War II.
It's like multiple ciphers.
I always find it fascinating that if you go to Polish museums or books, you will learn that the whole thing was basically cracked by the Polish people, and the British just added some minor optimizations
It's simple substitutions done multiple times with the settings changing each time.
I meant the plug board itself was like a caesar cipher
not adding much in terms of security
Yes, the Polish mathematicians don't get enough credit.
I think it's just a case of each country tooting their own horn
The reason they thought ti secure is just the huge number of possible combinations of settings.
Well, they couldn't. An awful lot of what happened was kept secret for a long time.
Recreating it, what was the most difficult part to design and get right?
Churchill was wary since he'd made the mistake of letting it be know in his writing that in WW1 Britain had cracked German codes.
Recreating in SW or HW do you mean?
@Simon Jansen the craftsmanship of your device is exceptional. you even went trough the effort to etch the logo
One of my other hobbies is metalworking. I like to pick up little skills where I can, the etching came from knowing how to etch PCBs.
https://hackaday.com/2018/12/03/an-arduino-wrapped-in-an-oled-wrapped-inside-an-enigma-pocket-watch/
For those who have not yet feasted their eyes...
Software wise the algorithm for Enigma is fairly simple. You just need to know the double stepping trick.
The hardware - I find that some things I design/print come out right the first time, but others I need so many iterations that it can be frustrating.
Hardware it's just a matter of making it small enough. I spent a long time trying to work out how to power the pocketwatch. What sort of batteries were practical and how to fit them.
I did use 3D printing a lot to mock up parts to arrange them in the case.
batteries are always the worst for wearables :(
I looked at small LiPos but they are hard to buy here and then you need some way to charge them.
love the pocket watch even more
steampunky
I actually wear the pocket watch every day. I added a RTC chip to it and it does actually tell the time.
Ohhh, I'm not a fan of steampunk to be honest :)
If it didn't tell the time, would it still be a pocket watch?
No, it would be a pocket folly I guess.
does a submarine swim?
ok.. then let's call ist retro
http://www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=266
Hark, a vagrant: 266
I like steampunk, but only when done well. The 'let's glue gears to a top hat' people make me angry.
Steampunk alway makes me thing of that.
Yes, done well it's cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA
I suppose everyone has to start somewhere. Shouldn't discourage people from trying!
I guess I am a more practical engineer. I go for function first but try to make the functional appealing too.
Cool build! Did you find a practical use for the Enigma watch too?
Telling the time is practical!
Not really. The watch was just a first try at making a small Enigma. Got to practice some simple metal working, leatherwork to make a strap, wrinkle finish paint and so on.
Also, it would be useful if WW2 starts up again.
🤣
And they dust off the old Enigmas. Bletchley Park would be raided for them!
I love that crinkle finish. Is there a trick to it or is it a commercially available product?
Is there any value in making an electronic version of the Enigma? I thought I saw something like this recently...
It's VHT wrinkle paint. You get it from automotive places. They use it on rocker covers and things like that.
It can be tricky to use. You need a very even coat and even heating to get it to wrinkle correctly.
@Kris Winer is ther any value in making anything?
There are quite a number of electronic Enigmas about.
I thought it was leather
I guess there's value in making something that's 100% pointless, if you learn something and find it interesting.
@deshipu Of course. Some things more than others... Maybe I should have said challenge in making an electronic version of Enigma.
Oh, mentioning Bletchley Park, if you have any interest in Enigma and the Bombe and that sort of thing and are in the UK go there.
Love crinkle paint, love Bakelite, love hammertone. Just a romantic, I guess
I visited. I enjoyed it.
Amazing place since you can really imagine everything happening there in WW2.
Definitely. The fact that it's a bit run down actually adds to the atmosphere.
Or it was. That was a few years ago.
The challenge for me was just coming up with the algorithm to use in the desktop Bombe I made really. The Bombe is really just a series of Enigmas all strung together.
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