Dan Maloney
oh man I should put on a clean shirt
Hi Dave! We're strictly come-as-you-are around here. Thank God, because I'm rarely presentable
I'm just happy to be here, hope I can help the ball club
Excellent almost "Bull Durham" reference ;-)
we gotta build 'em one cell at a time
So last week I was down in Pasadena, visiting my friend who runs SAFCell. They make cesium dihydrogen phosphate fuel cells that run at about 250C. It's a great temperature for doing internal reforming of methanol or ammonia. It's only waste heat if you don't use it!
That's interesting, we've been talking about fuel cells lately in our editorial meetings. Like from a "whatever happened to fuel cells?" perspective.
Weren't we supposed to have fuel cells generating electricity on a building-by-building basis by now?
fuel cells are still around!
but
the ones running homes were using reformed natural gas
and we doan wanna use no fossil fuels, even efficiently
My neighborhood, I have a couple of neighbors with fuel cell cars- both the Toyota Mirai and one had a Honda Clarity
they *loved* the cars, but even here in the commie SF bay, the hydrogen filling stations have had a spotty uptime
Hi Everyone. Self introduction. I'm an embedded developer working on renewable energy communications protocols, consulting with a DC-area EPC that has intentions of getting into the storage market. Happy to help with protocol questions ... except canbus since I don't have any experience in that one.
one of my neighbors still loves his Mirai
Hi Tom!
Hi Dave. Thanks for doing this. Looking forward to making small zaps in my backyard.
Seems like that's the essential problem -- can't have a hydrogen economy until you have hydrogen demand, and the demand won't be there until there's an infrastructure to support it.
Fuel cells would still handily beat batteries for trucks- railroad too
fast refuel, and if you want MOAR ENERGY just have more hydrogen tanks. The reactant is separate from the power generation
just like with an IC engine (except so much better)
whereas with batteries, for a truck, that's a lot more weight for more range
even for a car, but 400 miles is pretty good for 99.9% of driving
Anyone working on battery trailers? That seems like a low-hanging fruit to get small EVs across the country nonstop.
you think? hauling more weight?
Wepends on weight to energy.
I've taken trips with friends here in California and from Connecticut to Ohio in the last year, and man Tesla has chargers all over the place for fast recharges
I've seen Teslas with generators stuffed in the trunk. That's kind of a solution /s
oh man
Gotta grab some lunch, brb
well, I suppose where things get sketch in the Great Basin maybe. Better to be safe
Gotta fill the interior with plants. Oh wait thats CO not CO2.
well, just have a good catalytic converter on your generator and it'll be all CO2
So Tom the closest I got to what you're doing was doing a USB device specification for portable fuel cells
boy that'd be fun with USB type C now. Charge everything direct over USB
Something else to be stolen in bad neighborhoods.
don't *even* get me started
so I was talking with Mike Malone on the splash page for this hack chat. I think rolling your own rechargeable batteries that'd work better than what you could get with Li ion right now would be...challenging
I will look for Anderson's new USB format any day.
the Aquion page that Mike linked to showed a DIY copper/zinc rechargeable battery, but it was far from optimized
I think I heard the new-er USB spec talks about pounding 200W or more?
"boy that'd be fun with USB type C now. Charge everything direct over USB"
lol I expect USB-IF will propose new plan having two 48v pair of power! i.e. now device will connect up the two different pairs in series and boom 96v aka ~500 watts of available power :P
suh-weet
get a nice little tingle if you get a frayed cord, like when i worked on my phone line with sweaty hands!
Well isn't latest usb-if spec already asking 48v?
if it is, it hasn't asked me
USB Power Delivery offers the following features:
Increased power levels from existing USB standards up to 240W.
New 28V, 36V, and 48V fixed voltages enable up to 140W, 180W and 240W power levels, respectively.
https://www.usb.org/usb-charger-pd
USB Charger (USB Power Delivery)
USB has evolved from a data interface capable of supplying limited power to a primary provider of power with a data interface. Today many devices charge or get their power from USB ports contained in laptops, workstations, docking stations, displays, cars, airplanes or even wall sockets.
yep
huh
The higher voltage makes sense. More current = fatter wires
as we now know
Wow, that is bold for a “for everyday humans” spec tho
Can't safety, OSHA i beleive. lol I should email my friend on USB-IF group.
I've read about these "everyday humans"
Haha, they’re everywhere!
But seriously, when you cross the “could potentially confuse a human heart” threshold, that’s big
That reminds me, My first prediction is USB-IF will have power pins that are longer than data pins.
in next spec.
well I guess if folks don't fry themselves often with the mains outlets, what do we have to fear from USB C connectors?
gets what happens when at 48v under load and you pull out the cable where the host/client can't detect when it's being disconnected!
gets=guess
an ordinary human becomes extraordinary?
Sparks! Fried cable ends.
OK I'm saving my questions to ask the group for the top of the hour
Is Extra Low Safety Voltage still Volts in the US and VA in Europe?
I thought VA meant watts
LOL...yea in DC it does.
funny I have an AC transformer that also lists VA
maybe I should ask for my money back
Anyone interested in miniature batteries?
Example:
https://www.electronics-lab.com/meet-the-tiny-100mah-rechargeable-3d-solid-state-batteries-from-iten/
Ooo! This is where I get to tell you all the news: there's no such thing as a solid state battery
unless, by "solid state battery", you mean "a marketing term"
Hum, How about heatstorage and using Solar cell to capture IR
that be solid state battery to me :P
well what's your definition of a battery then
does it include "pitcher and a catcher"?
I always assumed a solid state battery would be made on a semiconductor line, using something like a photolithography process. Aside from driving sensors it's not my current gig though.
input electricity, store it for x time, then able to drain electricity
well hey a capacitor does that
is a capacitor a battery?
depends on the Ultracap
capacitors aren't batteries
LTO versions
heat storage isn't batteries
energy storage? Sure
Dave are you livestreaming anywhere? Do we get to watch you type or blow stuff up in the real world?
so, to Tom's point- he mentions stuff on a semiconductor line. Transistors, ICs, diodes, resistors? That's what I call solid state. The thing is a brick that doesnt' change dimensions as it's used
Weve put in > 1MJ of maxwall ultracaps as a buffer for an EV. Now if you want to drive 1 block only could be enough to be considered an battery like storage.
Tom- that would be fun but, sadly no
Scotch, anything like the bank of caps for fixed location usage? I have motors that I'm worried about inrush against the batteries.
So, a Li ion battery, let's say graphite on the negative electrode, nickel cobalt oxide on the positive electrode, solid electrolyte in between. Did you know the negative electrode will change its volume about 12% going from fully charged to discharged?
I guess if you're calling something a battery, the expectation is that the voltage doesn't drop to half or less when it's at half capacity.
positive electrode changes volume too
good one Erik
also, speed of charge and discharge- a capacitor is *crazy fast* compared to a battery
because it's not doing chemical reactions
@TOM "I have motors that I'm worried about inrush against the batteries." Depends on how big your batteries are, if they have enough surface charge likely could handle inrush.
moving ions, at most (in the case of low voltage electrolyte batteries)
every battery is a little bit of a capacitor
but not the other way around
Dave what about https://www.licaptech.com/products
it's hybrid
this is a good example- why have a big honking bank of batteries when a smaller bank of batteries and some caps to handle the transients will do?
we did that with our fuel cells back in the day. HP laptops had load profiles like the flight of the bumblebee
So we're already in the middle of a lively discussion, but we'll do the official kick-off thing and say welcome to everyone to the last Hack Chat of the year! I'm Dan, I'll be moderating along with Dusan as we welcome Dave Sopchak to continue the discussion of batteries and battery engineering.
Hi Dan!
Hey Mark!
@ILove Scotch Yea, it is a general concern. I'd expect the energy-storage devices I'll be using are generalized, and so might need specific hardware in front.
Hi Everyone
Hi, I'm Dave. I first realized I had a problem with electrochemistry about 1993, and I've been in therapy ever since.
Cat therapy
Hi Dave!
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