Shulie TornelWhitney Merrill Hi! I'm Whitney I founded the Crypto & Privacy Village. I somehow stumbled into #badgelife.
bitsr3m here, 1/5 of AND!XOR
Hi! I am Hyr0n, 1/5 Whiskey 1/5 AND!XOR, I enjoy long walks on the beach
lol
I think we are missing @supersat but she should be joining shortly
AND!XOR is basically like Voltron
he*
hah
Wait Karl is...?
Sorry he*
I'm MrRobotBadge. I was conceived backstage at a 38 Special concert and my life only got more awesome from there. For this year's def con I'm doing this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-sicuwNSF8
how did #Badgelife get started?
just made a badge
Jokes in chat
Welcome @true! Did you introduce yourself yet?
Ha that's funny.. I think its been going on for years. But @duplico invented the term. I reached out to folks on twitter to get everyone in one room to talk about the trials and tribulations
should I? hi I am true, I made the WP skull badges for DC22 and DC23, and the skeleton key DC24.
Duplico is one of the main queercon badge makers
@true love those badges, great to see you here!
The queercon badge is *always* top notch.
Yah- i'm guessing it will be this year too- We still havent seen it
its a ongoing joke how well they keep their badge secret
Queercon is always super secret squirrel
We love the WP badges, esp the key - super elegant design
Hey everyone, 1/5 of AND!XOR. I'm a janitor at a school, I enjoy solving math problems in hallways, always getting in trouble.
@andrew do you like apples?
Once @supersat arrives we can drop our big reveal of the Crypto & Privacy Village badge-- which IS HAPPENING. It wasn't maybe not happening a week ago. I feel ilke i havent slept properly in about a week
Andrew just busted in like the Kool Aid man
Are there specific questions people have?
welcome @Karl Koscher !
@hackb0t a good crisp gala apple is delightful on a sunny day
HALLO @Karl Koscher
Thanks! Sorry for the delay.
we have questions:
Hackb0t wants to know, "What about zoidberg"
@bitstr3m has a reveal too, but well wait for when this chat thingy agenda presents itself
yeah @Sophi Kravitz did you want us to just start picking from the google spreadsheet
yes please ~Sophi
Zoidberg is dead to me
@gateherder says "So for the benefit of others, can you describe #badgelife? Is it a single group of people? If not, .... what is it?"
I'm going to say it again, someone really screwed up not doing a hedonism bot badge.
Q: What about Zoidberg? A: Because bender. Over to Crypto.... Why not Zoidberg @Karl Koscher ?
It's a way of life
#badgelife isnt about collecting, its the losing sleep & pains of building hardware on a fixed deadline f
is it only for defcon?
We are also kind of a group. No, not only for defcon
I think #badgelife started as a joke about how much of our personal time we spend working on producing these things
its devoting your nights,weekends, sleepsless hours, sanity, and dollars all for making a piece of electronics that hangs from your neck. all to make others happy, meet people, and learn something new
#badgelife is a way to spend money and time you don't have, it's about waking up at 2am to call China, and just doing it all for the lulz
no but DC is probably the biggest presentation.
what other conferences is it for?
"all for making a piece of electronics that hangs from your neck" hahahaha
CCC, Derbycon, any conference that has a badge, layerone
@Jorge Lacoste well said!
@Jorge Lacoste is the reason i got involved
and basically how Crypto & privacy Village got into badgelife
It's a reference to folks who spend the entire year following Def Con to design, build, manufacturer, and peddle your interests to the masses in an attempt to show off your epic hardware hacking skillz
@Jorge Lacoste was the designer of the first Crypto and Privacy village badge (I'm one of the other organizers)
and then I got roped in by @Whitney Merrill to work on the firmware for the first CPV badge
It's kind of a -- if you don't like , build your own mentality too
exactly
lucas asked " What are the essential badge hacking tools and components to bring?"
/tip-o-teh-hat @Karl Koscher did all the coding for that design
WP did it because we had a dumb idea about a fire strobe, and after coming up with a bunch of ideas it turned into needing a badge. so I lost my after work time for a few months
We've spent months talking about a design realizing that simply its not feasible to do out of pocket
I never thought it would be anything like it was, but everyone seeme dto enjoy it
badgelife -- at least for CPV has been completely out of pocket with the hopes to recoup costs.
any previews??
Components: bring extra stuff you would like to incorporate into a existing design. for DC21 we modified the DC20 badge to send IR data over BLE to our phones
So for hacking on our badge, you can reflash everything over USB. All you need is a laptop. We're pretty much out of I/O, but you might be able to squeeze a few more pins out
we used personal funds, booster, kickstarter, and Andrew sells lemonade on the street corner every saturday night dressed up like a night walker
We do have an I2C bus
picture please?
@supersat is the brilliant mind behind last year's badge & this year's badge-- he also programmed our first badge that @Jorge Lacoste designed
WP will never sell badges. our goal has been to give away to cool people and try to invite the...less social people, the typical nerds who had bad experiences like I had at my first events, to have a good time
we (dczia) have a few badges going this year, with the hope that all the bills will get paid eventually... but in the end it's fun, with fun people...
but it still gets very expensive.....
@supersat = @Karl Koscher .
So expensive
costs add up quickly especially at volume
but really it's worth it to see people enjoy and appreciate them. They are pieces of art
if you think that not showering, spending all your money, badgelife is for you watch the "getting to blinky" video series that Chris Gammell has on youtube
So we ran into a bit of a problem with our prototypes ;)
yahhhh
we did 3 rounds
@Karl Koscher Beautiful!
they got hit with ransomware ;)
niiiice
haha
I accidently left MeatSpin bling on ours
yeah, what is MeatSpin? was confused by that.
Do y'all normally sell out of all the badges?
im 1000000000% serios
"accidently"
You should google it Mike
YAAAAAH no
Yes. they sell like hotcakes
@Todd: yes, absolutely
and are our main fundraiser
@Mike Szczys *NSFW WARNING*
We did last year we will see about this year
@Benchoff ROFL
Actually that 4x3 matrix of LEDs, is really displaying a low res RAW of meatspin ;)
we had ... production issues last year, and people bought bare PCBs
and PCBs with just LEDs on them
dont google that
hahaha
my eyes Wtf
@Karl Koscher How did you plan for more success this year?
We had an original plan to produce badges for DC24 -- but ditched it at the beginning of july and completely changed our design
@Karl Koscher@jculberts and I all worked to get a badge designed and "produced" by DC 24 -- in about 3 weeks
we had to strip back most of the features just to "blinky"
we planned much earlier this year
maybe someday I'll finish the firmware for it
The design process started in October this year
We started 8 August 2016
Wow dedication
order parts on cell phone while driving away from vegas
First prototypes here were ordered the last week of January.
by November we had decided on the lock and the look, @Karl Koscher started designing the schematic
i think we had been thinking about a rotary dial for quite some time too
oh was asking when started mentioned? I was going to start oct/nov but had repeated burglaries so couldn't do badges this year. for dc24 it was dec/jan, tried starting earlier but couldn't get artwork.
we had lots of ideas, and some we'll save for later years, but the decision has never really been contentious. I saw that question in the sheet.
I started the app design for our badge sometime in November
heya
He do we still get time past 1230? I know CPV and us both had reveals if people want to see them, or not we can keep the lulz up. audience call
It goes until question mark
oh wait, well that was it. Smartphone Integration
ha -- sounds like a productive friday for everyone. Is it security camp yet?
What kind of hacks are you hoping to see people do with your badges?
we noticed some had issues with UART, so were rolling a NUS BLE Terminal
So there's a question about whether there are more badges this year because DEF CON announced that L057 isn't doing them
Big badgelife reveal-- most of the badges will have BLE.... that's what ill say.
basically the app lets anyone, regardless of whether they get a badge to hack into the AND!XOR badge
You've all been colluding?
While that might be true for some badges, the majority that I know of were in development farrrrrrr in advance
everyone was
That's actually brilliant. Much better if there's a unified standard for owning the badges.
however, many of us decided to increase the number we were producing so more people could have electronic badges
are we still badge chatting then. late to the game
oh yes
Is there like a BLE firmware subcommittee and who's on it?
no garauntee that our app will get you into other badges but it's worth a try ;)
AND!XOR basically dictated BLE ;)
@Mike Szczys we decided at defcon last year that there should be some way to link them together someway. We were hoping to also do connectivity with the DEFCON badge-- but that...well that didnt happen
anyone in #badgelife that uses BLE and entered their info on the spreadsheet
@Mike Szczys AND!XOR got a reel of Rigado SoC's and those were broken out between a few groups
yah @and!xor dictated BLE
you know like hilter
I would say it's not as cohesive as you might want it to be, but we are all trying to have some inter-badge interaction
we dictated it, as your shiny new metal gods of IoT lulz
I am not in whatever channel / group that was in, didn't know about it... our badge technically had BLE last year but implementation wasn't done
Yo I'm inspired to make my own badge using hacked Zsun's, it just needs to be pretty
it's gonna take a bit to get right but I think it's been the hope of the badge community for a while
my badge is a wifi hotspot portal into a browser based VR/AR world
Noice
@true i've been told the WP "dont do slack"
a standard protocol for "when" we want to interact is good. but we dont want to hamper one anothers creativity by having a "everyone shall only use..."
BLE has been working well with our badge, we can get up to ~6 days of battery life with our badge currently
alusion - you may enjoy playing with the Cyphercon badge then :)
Is there a reference manual for the implementation somewhere?
I'll write that one down for defcon
Whitney, yeah we stick to oldschool protocols. hell the only reason we have twitter is so people can find us and bring us booze
9-10 different badge groups will have BLE it looks like
@Mike Szczys I was the poor fool who got to count out BLE chips and re-reel them
yeah thats the other thing, IoT SOCs have driven very low power components. its only natural when your badge requirements are "shall run entire con on a 3 AAs / no recharge"
just as well we don't "at" people
true: you know there is an IRC gateway :|
ha thats fair true
@bitstr3m I envison the tickets spit out at those skee-ball machines, except Rigado modules
@Mike Szczys i believe Zapp wrote out a common protocol, but that might be for future years. I think right now there are a lot of using the beacons to identify badges
basically
its an easy characteristic to use
@Jorge Lacoste That common protocol is a story right there. I'll pester you about it at the con ;-D
So I have posted the CPV 2017 badge schematic on our (very new and sparse) hackaday.io project page: https://hackaday.io/project/25893-the-2017-crypto-and-privacy-village-badge
Karl haven't looked into it...as I said WP "official" badge plans were delayed then canceled after repeated burglary so I couldn't really do anything this year anyway. hopefully what is out there is hackable and I'll get my hands on it. maybe next year.
Whats the worst that can happen with a WiFi enabled badge at hacker conference?
We will flesh out the info
A real shame what you had to go through @true
having RF integrated into an SoC is critical, we had issues last year rolling our own RF traces last year
> Whats the worst that can happen with a WiFi enabled badge at hacker conference?
Heh.
Whell if you are using Qualcomm chips, turn off all the wifi
@true did they catch them
alusion there have been wifi badges at DC24, that used malformed beacons or deauth packets to talk
especially your phone (wait for blackhat talk next week)
for the love of god, do not modify your badge to broadcast any SSIDs like ALPHA, GAMMA, DELTA, etc
charliex only 6 of the 15+.
also expect a 5-6 hour battery life
with wifi
@Karl Koscher "Universal Bee" -- that's a new one to me.
sucks man
I wish WiFi was less power hungry already
it's kind of a nice part
Hence, we use Wifi
Mike, it's a decent 8051 with USB
I also designed as secondary badge this year -- just incase #badgelife fucked us over
by Silicon Labs, and they have firmware that makes it look like a Silicon Labs USB to serial chip... but it's a cheaper part
Is it laser cut acrylic?
i think BADGELIFE is growing up a bit, it used to be all about just LED bling, you start to see greater feature sets being developed lately
we haven't started our dc badge yet. cutting it close
not electronic, just pcb just in case-- need to have a backup
I despise the fact that it's an 8051, but everything else about it is pretty nice
badgelife and this years defcon is signaling a renaissance in electronic badge art
no @Hyr0n thankfully not
That's my guess- that if DefCon folks do have an official badge, that it'll be pcb only
yah that's my guess to @The Toymakers (tymkrs)
I'll prob be spending a lot of money #noragrets
i think you misspelled paper
yeah
your mom misspelled paper
huh ? this years defcon badge is electronic
like 1400's electronic
this years defcon badge is cancelled
oh damn :( my hotel is booked tho
same kind of blinky badge Columbus used as he sailed the ocean blue
we hope to one year have a thousand badges for handout. because as a poor hacker at dc16-18 and having an awful experience, I certainly didn't have a whole lot of money for additional bling. want to make a fun time for others
They said they were going to "come up with something"
This year's defcon badge is most certainly not electronic.
BTW the app for the AND!XOR badge is real at least for Android we plan to release sometime next week so keep a look out.
What was your experience true?
last years wasn't electronic
no ios, sorry not sorry
you can use a Nordic UART app, but it is very verbose
In case anyone is wondering--production choices generally fall down to CHINA vs. US
@alusion yes it was :)
and we dont develop on Apple, so no
at my first defcon events? goons acting like assholes, hold on phone calls, I am working
I mean, you know what the ideal hackercon badge would be? Perfboards with stations of chips and wires all over the con lol
We tend to try and stick with US fab houses
most of my parts come from china and some of them are going out of stock :(
Toymakers, are you asking me?
@The Toymakers (tymkrs) thats been done though, and it relies on people bringing lots of neat stuff to solder in and havine people to help design stuff
I really want to run a badgemaking workshop at defcon with rapid prototyping PCB machines. Unfortunately, the logistics of that seem too complex
Sure hah, I'm just thinking out loud about how to do a fast badge (esp w/defcon's situation)
It definitely makes communication much easier when you go through US fab houses
stay up all night
I say it tongue in cheek in other words
We used PCBWay
I want to atleast see a badgelife gathering at ddefcon
@Karl Koscher i have an Othermill
For anyone wondering, we were originally going China. Then one of Zapps designs got posted on their website without our permission. Cant trust some of the overseas fabs. So we eneded up domestic wtih Macrofab. Couldnt be happier with getting them made in Texas
you can call them up same day and get problems solved
Yikes hyr0n
here's a gathering- but its hush hush
MrRobotBadge announced when Ann's where sales would be. I missed it.
And charliex - yes I agree, it probably wouldn't actually work to just have perfboard
I really really really want an andxnor badge
Toymakers, basically as your typical nerd it was hard to talk with people, but noobdy seemed to want to talk. just sat against a wall most of it. goons were assholes every time I dealt with them, pushed out of the way, stomped on. People in general were rude. A few regular con goers are like cancer. Really bad experience. I don't want others to have the defcon experience I did back then
made in america :D
silver circuits used to do all our pcbs, but we switched to itead who've been doing really well and they're cheap and will help out with the , hey we need this next week
s/america/'Murica/
I get that @true - I'm glad you used your experience and decided to do something with it
had much less luck with US based board houses tbh
Oh hi @charliex , long time no see!
alusion WP have hand assembled all badges. PCBs are from china, components are from wherever, but we assembled them 100% in house.
@Arsenijs sup!
We used pcbway and have been very happy the turn around is really quick and they have great customer service
beautiful
that's something I would like to continue to do but won't be able to without big $$$ if we also want quantity. doing it by hand takes a lot of time
i know people using microfab have had delay issues
and they are significantly more expensive
I was pretty happy with pcbway. I've submitted gerbers sunday night and got boards friday morning
(these were bare boards, not assembled)
How much in parts for 500 badges?
the biggest issue we had is that it got so easy/fast with itead that'd we'd prototype by doing pcb runs instead of milling them or breadboarding
pcbway built our entire batch (500) in 1 day
alusion depends on complexity at that quantity...
it depends a lot on what your parts are
* assembled
@true totally agree. in house hand assembly takes some serious time. We did that last year with our dc24 badge. We all meet up and just drink beer, watch shity hacker movies and solder for 72 hours
As fancy as bender badge version 1
Lets just say, for our lot, Andrew had to get kneepads to cover the costs
just thinking of a median
yeah itead i can submit sunday night and get them in 7 days, cheap
Agreed - the cyphercon cube badge this year was done all in house. serious flux time there
How many different badge designs would you guys say you've made collectively?
i've done around 10 personally
maybe more
This years layerone badge was beautiful
agree
do they have to be different circuits? or can it include ones with diff designs?
yeah we got a lot of good feedback on that one, was super happy
@alusion agreed! Until I fried mine :(
@Todd just come by the house
so my ultimate goal is get parts like pick n place, better oven, etc. and do it in house. I'd really like to also do assembly for other low quantity hacker / con badges, keep it in the community
we'll be there tomorrow
true: that would be very awesome!
@charliex cool.... I'll definitely have time for that
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