Jasmine Brackett : We're really pleased to have @Zach Dunham from Kickstarter here.

Zach Dunham : Thanks for inviting me, Jasmine!

Jasmine Brackett : We've been discussing the cross over between Tindie/Hackaday and various crowdfunding communities and we're here to answer any questions.

Jon Buford : I just finished a campaign on Indiegogo for Atomo, a modular electronics system, the kind of thing you can find on Tindie. I found that even with being Arrow Certified, IGG ended up burying the campaign because it doesn't fit their categories well.

Does Kickstarter have a better way to make campaigns of hard technology bubble up for those people that it would be meaningful for or anything else that might be an advantage? The Arrow Certification and the design review was good, especially talking with potential distributors, but I don't feel that IGG as a platform performs well for Tindie-like projects.

Zach Dunham : Cool. Well congrats to Jon for wrapping up the campaign.

We have a few different ways that we highlight these types of projects

Our DIY electronics category is a good place to start browsing — there’s everyone from Paul Stoffregen from Teensy, to a creator like Patrick Thomas who’s run over 20 electronics projects.

The way that we celebrate and highlight these campaigns varies from tagging and grouping them so they’re easy for backers to find, to highlighting them in our Invent Newsletter. We also recommend projects to backers based on their interests and past projects they've backed. This doesn’t mean that you don’t still need to work to promote your project, but we take an active role in making sure that a variety of projects are featured, not just big campaigns, and that they’re getting in front of the right audiences.

Jasmine Brackett : You can check out the category here: https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/technology/diy%20electronics

IIt seems it's similar to Tindie in that although we help promote products, the best results seem to come from tapping into your communities and connections.

Ok, @Chris Gammell, you had a couple of questions?

Chris Gammell : Was curious about the new request for projects

Just what they're hoping for, specifically Zach

Zach Dunham : Yea! This is something new for us.

Chris Gammell : If I'm being blunt, it seems like a bad idea

and I love me some Kickstarter

only because i think it prompts people to jump in before they're ready

that's how it reads for me

Zach Dunham : Hah! Well thanks for being honest! It's definitely not our intention to push people to launch early.

Chris Gammell : so maybe the right question is, is there coaching for those folks who submit something?

or is there a checklist in your mind for how to know when they might be ready?

I just worry about the manufacturability of something for hw

Zach Dunham : Part of the goal here is to get a chance to talk about the types of projects, we as a team and as a platform are excited about.

Chris Gammell : Ah cool, OK

Zach Dunham : There's not a lot of line of sight into the inner workings of Kickstarter. Request for projects is a chance to for us to say, there's a team of people here focusing on supporting these types of projects.

Chris Gammell : so it's more about prospecting of projects that might be at prototype

Zach Dunham : And, we think these are important areas to highlight.

Chris Gammell : and ready to move forward

Jasmine Brackett : Sounds pretty interesting. You can read more about it here (after the chat) https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/our-design-and-tech-teams-request-for-projects

Zach Dunham : Ah, well I think this is about us saying, if you're working on a project in one of these areas, and are interested or have been thinking about using Kickstarter, we're here to help.

Chris Gammell : got it! Would love to hear more about the 'manufacturability' piece too, but I'll let others ask questions in the meantime

Zach Dunham : But, absolutely not about pushing people to launch before they're ready

Chris Gammell : because i think it's relevant to all projects, not just the ones being requested

Zach Dunham : Cool! Yea, happy to talk more about that too.

spencer : So, if I'm reading it correctly, you're after tools for creating, boundary pushing and delightful design?

Is there anything more specific, or is it just the three fairly broad categories you're trying to push for?

Zach Dunham : Yes, and those are pretty general titles. My two teammates are focusing on design and science related projects. I'm focusing on "creative tools"

For creative tools, it's everything from digital fabrication tools, to musical instruments.

I admit that it's still somewhat broad. At the same time it does help us be more proactive in helping folks. And these areas of focus will continue to shift over time.

For creative tools, I'm also interested in building blocks and tools like particle or teensy or other single board modules that folks can prototype with.

For me, that's squarely in the realm of creative tools. Does that help clarify, Spencer?

spencer : Yeah, thanks.

Jasmine Brackett : Thanks Zach. I think @Nick Sayer has a question too.

spencer (I don't think any of my stuff really fits those categories... but I don't really have anything that needs crowdfunding right now anyway)

Zach Dunham : No sweat. And for what it's worth, it's not to say that we won't help anyone outside of these categories.

It's just that we're taking more of an initiative to support this stuff.

Nick Sayer : Hi. I am not sure my question really boils down to something susinct. I've not had good success with crowdfunding so far and have just foregone it. I do have something that I've been considering to go back again with - buying a USB VID for myself - but have questions about finding marketing channels that are appropriate and not annoying. I guess what it comes down to is that I see that folks who have succeeded bring their own audiences - notably RiffTrax and MST3K and stuff.

I hope I am not sounding whiny. :)

Jasmine Brackett says:

I guess this question isn't just for Zach, but for anyone who has experience with crowdfunding.

Please chip in.

Benchoff : MST3K.

spencer : My only crowdfunding experience is from the buying point of view, but just about every campaign I've backed has been ones that people I know have already backed. (sorry, that's probably not very helpful though)

Nick Sayer : AT32UC3A4128S

Nick Sayer : oops

Zach Dunham : It's a common question. Running a campaign definitely means putting yourself out there. And for a lot of people, it can feel like you're spamming, just by asking folks to contribute. I would say that we do a lot of work to help creators think about the best way to present their ideas so they really resonate with our audience and the general public. MST3K had a huge amount of support directly from the KS community.

Nick Sayer :

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rifftrax/rifftrax-live-17-samurai-cop-beach-party-and-myste

KICKSTARTER RIFFTRAX: MIKE, BILL & KEVIN

RiffTrax Live '17: Samurai Cop, Beach Party & Mystery Title! RiffTrax: Mike, Bill & Kevin is raising funds for RiffTrax Live '17: Samurai Cop, Beach Party & Mystery Title! on Kickstarter! RiffTrax is doing three live shows in 2017 simulcast to theaters nationwide: SAMURAI COP + SUMMER SHORTS BEACH PARTY + a MYSTERY TITLE! Read this on Kickstarter >

Jasmine Brackett : Wow. I guess it's a little more sharable than a lot of boards.

Kris Winer : There are two aspects to crowdfunding that are useful: one is the exposure and one os the money. For those who do not need the money, like myself, the challenge is to balance the work required to comply with posting at a crowdfunding source with the possibility of more exposure. So far this balance has not worked in my favor. I am always looking for more effective marketing approaches. I do not think kickstarter has worked well for me.

Nick Sayer : That resonates with me. I thought of a kickstarter for Orthrus, but I don't really need to raise money for that so much (though that DOES bring up the USB VID issue).

Zach Dunham : What would you say the challenges are around compliance?

Zach Dunham : ^ For @Kris Winer

Kris Winer : It's just a lot of work to post a kickstarter campaign. My one and only attempt did not repay the effort.

CaptMcAllister : My recommendation is to start small and build a little following and grow from there. Too many people have the expectation that their first campaign is going to net $50k.

Zach Dunham : That's true, and goes back to what I was saying about it being a place to grow community, rather than build from scratch. Also, not every campaign needs to be a $50K+ campaign.

Kris Winer : Crowdsourcing, if I were to try again, is a marketing tool for me, not a source of funding. I don’t need the money. I need the exposure and customers. So crowdsourcing is not a great fit really.

Nick Sayer : How does a kickstarter in and of itself net you exposure, though?

Zach Dunham : I think exposure and community engagement are good goals to have in a campaign.

Jasmine Brackett : I think getting a good video up can be a hurdle for first timers. Also, knowing what kind of info to provide in the descriptions.

CaptMcAllister : People wander into Kickstarter to see what's new

Nick Sayer : That benefits the top-of-heap projects more than anyone else though.

CaptMcAllister : I think around 50% of my campaign page visits were through Kickstarter.

Kris Winer : People scan for new projects just like on Tindie scanning for new products and there is a certain amount of exposure there. of course, if you are going to take the trouble to follow all of the steps to complete the crowdfunding post requirements you will spend a bit of time spamming your friends, etc. There is some extra exposure, but not enough to warrant the effort in my experience.

CaptMcAllister : Not in my case. My campaign was little, but got lots of nice traffic: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1710326172/boostick-small-aa-voltage-booster?ref=user_menu

CaptMcAllister : I don't want to badmouth Tindie, but I sold more units in 2 hours on Kickstarter on a Friday night than I did in months on Tindie.

CaptMcAllister : With basically no promotion

Nick Sayer : My experience is exactly the opposite of that. :)

Kris Winer : Me too.

CaptMcAllister : I think it's going to depend on the audience. What I was selling was pretty basic and everyone from beginner upward could pick one up on impulse

Jasmine Brackett :

Kickstarter definitely has a larger and wider audience.

CaptMcAllister : If you've got something that's really unique and esoteric, you've got to build that community first, and Kickstarter can only help you so much.

Jasmine Brackett : Which can both work for and against, depending on the product.

CaptMcAllister : That's a good point Jasmine.

Jasmine Brackett : Tindie works best for the hardware niche. But if you have something that is more end product than a kit or component, then Kickstarter may be better.

spencer : I feel like I'm a big fish in a small pond at Tindie - but fear I'd be a small fish in a big pond at Kickstarter. So Tindie works great for me

Zach Dunham : There's definitely a lot of projects on Kickstarter at any moment - usuaIly there are ~1000 between design and technology each month along. I will say that comparing campaigns without much context is pretty hard.

Jasmine Brackett : Also, both @Kris Winer and @Nick Sayer have many items on Tindie, so get quite a lot of search traffic. Sellers with just one item, tend to have to do more of their own promo to get good sales.

Radomir Dopieralski : I wonder, if you are growing a community anyways, why would you want it to be attached to Kickstarter, and not existing on its own?

Zach Dunham : I'd also go back to the point that you should have a goal for what you want out of a campaign. Not just money. Know what success would look like for you, outside of $$. And the one other point again.. It doesn't just have to be about a big project. Making 10/20 or 100 of something can be a great campaign.

Zach Dunham : I think that's a great question.

Jasmine Brackett : Tindie is growing and we see that there is opportunity for people to try stuff out here, then crowd fund; or crowd fund and then sell overstock or second runs on tindie.

Zach Dunham : @Radomir Dopieralski I guess it depends on the type of project. If it's something where there's an open SDK and a forum for users to share code and ideas and you've reached critical mass, then doing things in your own environment or platform is maybe better.

Kickstarter never wants to be the endpoint for your project. It's a tool you can use along the way, whether that's raising funds or raising funds + getting feedback on an idea. But ideally projects live on into the future, off of KS.

Oh, I wanted to share a resource too.

https://d3mlfyygrfdi2i.cloudfront.net/GettingStartedDT.pdf

D3MLFYYGRFDI2I

Jasmine Brackett : Thanks for that.

Zach Dunham : @Chris Gammell for your question around manufacturability of campaigns, here's what we're looking for in terms of demos too.

https://www.kickstarter.com/blog/pointers-for-sharing-your-prototype

KICKSTARTER

Pointers for Sharing your Prototype Over the years we've seen hundreds of outstanding design and technology creators share engaging behind-the-scenes documentation of their projects. Providing backers with a clear sense of where their project stands, and what a first hand experience with a new technology looks like, is what distinguishes them from other campaigns. Read this on Kickstarter >

CaptMcAllister : Hey Zach, one thing that would be really cool is if there was a way to drop ship a huge package of stuff to Europe and then have it opened and distributed.

Benchoff : ^would be awesome

CaptMcAllister : For example, my product was maybe 1/4" too thick to use the $3 shipping to Europe in a 6"x9" envelope

spencer : ^ and same in the opposite direction :-)

Jasmine Brackett : That's an issue for quite a few tindie sellers.

Zach Dunham : Yea, it'd be helpful for navigating VAT in some cases too probably.

CaptMcAllister : So if there was a service where I could ship a huge case of pre-addressed envelopes to Europe, and someone could open the box and drop them in the post, that would have saved me hundreds in shipping, and mine was just a small campaign.

Jasmine Brackett : We'd love to find a logistics partner for that.

Jasmine Brackett : Anyway, It's about time to wrap up.

CaptMcAllister : I looked around on Alibaba and couldn't find anyone suitable (surprisingly)

It's a business idea for someone!

Nick Sayer : doesn’t that concept create VAT issues?

Jasmine Brackett : Thanks to Zach. We appreciate him taking the time.

Nick Sayer : At least going in to EU

Nick Sayer : yes, thanks

Zach Dunham : I'm not a shipping and logistics expert, but hub and spoke models for fulfillment can make it easier.

Kris Winer : Thanks Zach!

Zach Dunham : At least what I've heard.

Jasmine Brackett : You're all welcome to hang out and chat as usual.

Zach Dunham : No problem! Thanks for having me!

CaptMcAllister : Thanks Zach

Zach Dunham : @CaptMcAllister check out BlackBox for fulfillment.

spencer : @Nick Sayer Yes, smaller value shipments don't have tax applied. Bigger ones do. So a balancing act for cost of shipping vs cost of tax

CaptMcAllister : Will do. Thanks for the referral.

spencer says: : Thanks Zach

Zach Dunham : My pleasure

Jasmine Brackett : @Zach Dunham, feel free to pop back from time to time if you have any updates :)

RoGeorge : Interesting chat, thank you!

Zach Dunham : Will do! Thanks @Jasmine Brackett

Jasmine Brackett : Btw - If anyone is going to be at Maker Faire Bay Area on the 19-21, let me know. We're going to have a booth and there will be a meetup on Saturday night.

Jasmine Brackett : If you want to demo any of your products in person, or send a small demo item for us to display, get in touch.

Jasmine Brackett : Thanks everyone. Thats a wrap for this TIndieChat!