Realy nice job!!! As a cnc machinist from more than 10 years is a realy nice machine...simple, great design .

Im curious about the software you using to control it.. im familiar with mach3 and emc2 but i seach on your link but i didnt find where you talk about this 

Well done

I see you have not posted any CAD files, source code, or build information. Is this just a marketing post for your up coming kick starter?  Will you be posting any meaningful design information in the future? 

There's no marketing team (I wish I had one). I'll upload more photos to the gallery of the build in progress, as well as the previous machine so you can see the difference. This is a machining-intensive project, I think there would only be a handful of users on the Hackaday forums who might have the capability to make this machine, which is one of the reasons I haven't posted all the manufacturing drawings here. It can use just about any 3d printer control board with standard firmware, nothing is branched yet. I'm hesitant to post all the exact part dimensions and stuff before the Kickstarter because there is a chance it would get immediately knocked off by a Chinese manufacturer (it has been done before for more consumer friendly products.) There will be quite a bit of open source stuff later on since I hate the concept of "proprietary technology". Still, to make this mill-turn center requires expensive industrial machines that none of us can afford and thus giving out complete schematics would be sabotaging myself for the sake of anyone who is already established with big machines and cheap labor. Hopefully this made sense!

BTW, I still need to organize and add to the description on this page to make a more complete picture of it. More details on the sub-assemblies and critical stuff to come. If you want to see the evolution of this thing from start to finish, check out this original forum thread;

http://forum.seemecnc.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=9238

To make something clear: 

If there are more things like this coming up then:

this makes me rethink my life.

Thanks!

There will be plenty of even cooler things coming up if the crowdfunding works out.

What kind of stuff would you want to see?

This looks really interesting. Are you thinking of cutting oil options  such as splash enclosures,

Or you thinking the old WD-40 spray as you go method?

It's actually less reliant on cutting fluid than most vertical CNCs because the chips fall down and out of the way, this is a major advantage of horizontal machines.

But yes, the production machine will having the tubing and nozzle compatibility for coolant and shop air. The enclosure would cost quite a bit for a machine this size, so that will have to be optional. It would be a basic T slot frame with polycarbonate windows and some bright LED strips for lighting.

I’m extremely interested in this mill. It would be a great compliment to my CNC and have been looking for a reasonable lathing style.

Launch your campaign and I’m all in.

I can't seem to find your project on kickstarter, could you please post the link. I've been looking for a machine like this for years. I will be purchasing the mill-turn with rotary auto change tool post, O-Drives, and I definitely want the quick change 30 taper. 

Hi Jeremy,

I'm glad you're excited for this! I haven't launched the Kickstarter yet because this project needs more exposure and publicity. It's hard to predict how the funding will go, and I don't want it to fail for lack of attention. I'll let you know as soon as there is a definite launch date.

Wow, keep up the good work!

Amazing project. I noticed you were asking for some feedback in the Industry Arena forum. I don't have a user there, but I would gladly give some feedback here instead.

First: You mentioned using more Odrive boards in the production models, among other improvements. Can I encourage you to reconsider the value of price and simplicity? Since this is a small machine, it should only require modest feedrates and still be very productive. Steppers should suffice, and are infinitely cheaper. Just use nema23's (or maybe even nema 17 one some axis if that is enough) and ordinary DRV8825 drivers with fan cooling running at 36v if you want a bit more performance. I realize this will make single point broaching a bit slow, but users wanting higher performance on specialized operations can easily retrofit a faster motor. Remember that your target customer is mostly other makers. They appreciate a lower initial investment and also has the competence necessary to add upgrades. The rigid base and the functionality is your selling point, along with a reasonable price. But I think using the dual-motor 48V O-drive for the spindles is spot on!

This is one specific suggestion, but overall please try to keep it cheap and simple, and avoid the temptation to offer customization and multiple options. This is mostly for your own sake, I want to see you pull this off and not get in over your head. I also want you to make enough profit to keep making and improving these. Don't over-engineer the first version!

Another suggestion would be to build the milling head spindle out of a cheap cylindrical extension chuck with an ER collet holder, instead of making a 30 taper with a drawbar. Having multiple tool holders is neat, but this option would make both the machine and the accessories cheaper (30 taper toolholders are not free). Try searching ebay for "C25 ER25". Put a nut and a pulley at the rear end and combine with two bearings and a housing and you have yourself a cheap but still fairly rigid spindle. The runout is often terrible, but the taper can be remachined "in situ" by the machine itself. Material quality and tolerances on the shaft are often surprisingly good. Choosing a slimmer spindle design would also make it easier to fit two spindles closely together driven by the same motor, where one could for an example hold a drill and the other a tap. This would possibly be more useful than the quicker manual toolchanges provided by the 30 taper. Check this video, (from 00:15 to 00:39) for an example of such a setup (stacking ER spindles close together driven by a single motor instead): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhwUHgWzzKs

Increasing the RPM would also be easy with smaller bearings. You could even have different size pulleys to allow higher speed on one spindle and higher torque on the other, though that may not be warranted since the O-drive has so much power to spare.

I'm a mechanical engineer and fully understand the importance of rigidity in machines like these, but you don't need bigger milling head bearings than on a bridgeport. If properly installed, 25mm ID bearings vs bearings of double that size will not affect the sum of the flex between the workpiece and the end mill given the design of this machine.

Since you have already designed a spindle I'm not saying you should spend time on downgrading or upgrading (in the case of the dual spindle option). It's just an example of a simplification that could both reduce the initial investment for the customer and increase your profit margin.

Either way this machine looks fantastic. I think I'm willing to pay more than most makers for this machine, whether or not you take my advice. But since I want you to succeed in this I highly encourage you to look for compromises that will save you time and money, and that can reduce the selling price.

Thanks for the long, detailed feedback David!

1) Regarding the ODrive vs stepper thing, the machines will be equipped with NEMA 24 dual shaft steppers on all linear axes by default. The main turning spindle and milling spindle, as well as the live tool spindle through the lathe turret will be controlled by ODrives. However, given that it is very easy and somewhat inexpensive to upgrade the linear axes, I think it makes sense to offer the ODrive as an a la carte option for each axis. Roughly 100 dollars per axis when you add up the component cost. I think some people will want this.

2) As far as customization goes, this machine is made of common interchangeable parts with similar features. Since I'll be machining these in batches on a large VMC, the customization really comes down to the color of the anodized aluminum and what components/assemblies people want to buy. Right now on the Kickstarter preview page, I have variants of the machine that span the price range of 1,900 to just under 5,000. They all use the same machined parts. Keeping cost to a minimum has been a goal from day 1!

3) I actually built a milling spindle as you describe, with an ER20 collet extension. Runout was pretty good for using cheap components, under 0.0005". The tool turret will use similar extensions in the live tooling blocks, and it already uses stub extensions to hold drills and boring bars and stuff. I may have a lower cost variant of the machine that uses one of these as the milling spindle, since it gets rid of the cost of machining the BT30 spindle tube. But the BT30 spindle is a major step up in rigidity, and the ability to change tools quickly without resetting height saves a lot of time. The 30 taper spindle also lends itself to an ATC, which I have a half finished prototype of. The ATC is a big reason for going 30 taper.

As far as spindle speed, the large bearings I have around the 30 taper spindle can do over 14,000 RPM with grease. I'm limiting it to 6,000 because the belt would be loud at 14k and using a lower KV motor with the ODrive allows more torque without heating stuff up too fast. I may bump this RPM limit up depending on test results once the production version is together. The limit is kind of arbitrary at this point.

4) The bearings have a weird cost metric, it doesn't cost exponentially more to use bigger bearings. Plus they have to fit around the 30 taper spindle. With the ER collet extension shaft you mention, I would definitely use smaller bearings to press on it.

I've been considering adding a reward level for a low cost 3 axis mill version to the kickstarter. It would share the same solid structure as the mill-turn and lathe variants, but without the added expenses and complexity of the lathe part or swiveling head part. I may be able to offer this 3 axis version for  $1,500-ish, but I'll have to check my BOM to be sure before the launch.

A big part of doing this Kickstarter to launch a manufacturing business is keeping overhead costs to a minimum. If the Kickstarter is a success, we'll be financing one large machine for production. Already have quotes for a few suitable VMCs and financing terms lined up.

David, if you don't mind, would you be willing to evaluate the Kickstarter preview page once it's nearing completion? I still have to get some dumb n' cringy corporate background music for the video, and finish the voice over. I'll send you a link once it's near final form.

Thanks for listening. It sounds like you already considered almost everything.

Indeed some people may want to upgrade each axis, and I may be one of them. As long as there is a cheap and simple default option. By the way, you've listed three things right now that you plan to power with O-drives by default. But since each O-drive powers two motors I'm guessing you plan to add a secondary spindle using the last output? Powering the linear Z-axis would also be an option of course, since this axis would probably benefit the most from higher speed. Just thinking out loud...

About the milling spindle, maybe a dual-headed ER version would be a nice, cheap alternative to the ATC? Stacking them in the X-direction about 50 mm apart should work in most situations (not in the Y-direction as in the video I linked). Either way I support your idea of offering the cheap single ER spindle as an option. At the same time I'm hoping you will try to limit the amount of options to keep it simple, so maybe you should forget about my dual-ER suggestion...

Speaking of an ATC spindle, I'm actually designing one myself right now. It could be an option for your machine, but it will take some time before I have the time to finish it. A short description though: It's design to grab cylindrical shafts instead of tapers. This is not always ideal, but has a bunch of advantages including

Radially compact = high RPM despite using cheap bearings

Grabs endmills of a certain diameter directly = Better runout and lower cost

Can use ER extensions as toolholders = Cheap and easily available

Right now I'm focusing on making it dirt cheap to sell to the DIY router market, capable of grabing 8 mm shafts and matched in speed and holding torque to the common 24kRPM 0,8-2,2kW spindles. Once that's done I was planning to design something more rigid for machining metal. If you happen to focus on other aspects of the machine for the coming months I may have a toolchange spindle for you to consider by the time you turn to the ATC.

And I'll gladly help evaluate the kickstarter preview.

SO SICK!!!

WOW! Some really nice work !