Lutetium-
Hack Chat Transcript, Part 3
02/21/2019 at 16:30 • 0 commentsthat should work too, however I think that kerosene has shorter chains than mineal oil, so it's more likkely to burn than minearl oil
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kerosene does burn, yeah![]()
How do you measure HV?![]()
it's one of the more commonly used EDM dialectrics though, so it's not instant death or anything![]()
@guido.giunchi I do an indirect measurement:![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnGXrOs88dE
![]()
trying to remember why I wanted to use it instead of mineral oil (which is also used)![]()
I know what I have at primary because I can measure it with the oscilloscope![]()
(I have 138V) and I know then exactly the voltage on secondary because I know the turn ratio![]()
btw that's the transformer the machine uses![]()
around 5kV on secondary![]()
What about DC? You can use a huge resisitive divider, but that scares me if the ground disconnects or opens![]()
@guido.giunchi i don't trust resistive dividers when I have to measure 70 000V xD![]()
Yeah, I was referring to that!![]()
I use the oscilloscope to measure the low voltage part of the circuit and do some maths![]()
Also, simulations are helpful![]()
I used OrCAD to simulate all the circuit![]()
what about to measure lenght of the gab which the spark can jump? XD![]()
@vincent stuchly you mean like this? :![]()
![]()
![]()
Go and approach a ruler to it, if you dare![]()
(I took that picture with the marx generator)![]()
If I'm asking too much questions I'll stop, but I'm a curious electronics engineering student..Why does the oil jump under HV?
![]()
(also it's my profile picture :D)![]()
I know :D it wasnt meant serious I am sorry![]()
@guido.giunchi ask anything you want, I will answer like if @Dan Maloney if paying me for that![]()
@guido.giunchi the oil gets ionized, not by the multipler, but by the air![]()
I mean, that does not happen in the sealed box![]()
Doesn't it move inside the box?![]()
Yes, it moves a bit![]()
but there is no air (almost) in there![]()
Looks like our time is almost up, but everyone is free to continue chatting as long as Fran wants to hang around, of course. I want to thank Fran for his time today and a really informative Hack Chat, and thanks to everyone for the great questions.I also want to let everyone know that next week we'll be talking to Simon Jansen about "All Things Engima" - https://hackaday.io/event/163974-all-things-engima-hack-chat. Be sure to stop by.
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so nothing happens![]()
Can we hear about the CT scanner before we finish!!![]()
I will stay :P![]()
Yes, I prepared some things to show![]()
:-)![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqcW84oigto
![]()
This is part of the live fluoroscopy before I did the scanner![]()
I wanted to know if the camera could record it![]()
The white dots are just high energy photons hitting the cmos sensor?![]()
I then took a motor:![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA2EUH2K-uI
![]()
@guido.giunchi yes, it's noise by the x-rays![]()
ooh excellent!![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZYWHe7RwYo
![]()
The camera does record a bit of noise![]()
It even records sound noise lol![]()
I like that charger video!![]()
This is the last video I prepared for this hackchat![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaLfANKrfUk
![]()
A view inside the machine![]()
Woah!![]()
![]()
![]()
This is how I do CT scans, to a lighter this time![]()
btw, if you are looking to get some HV things to start doing experiments, here you have some things:![]()
12v-36V ZVS Tesla coil flyback driver/Marx generator/Jacob' ladder+ignition coil 190268474092 | eBay
ZVS Tesla coil flyback driver generator/Jacob's ladder Inductive Heater ignitioN. 1 x ZVS Tesla coil flyback driver generator/Jacob's ladder Inductive Heater ignitioN. Excessive heat generated at magnetic coil. | eBay!
![]()
It's cheap and ready to use![]()
On eBay you will also find HV diodes and capacitors like the ones I used for the machine![]()
they are also very cheap: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=20kv+10nf+capacitor&_sacat=0 and https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/High-voltage-diode-2CL2FM-100MA-20KV/931572_32768102085.html?spm=a219c.12010108.1000001.8.766770d6MVP1E6&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_1_10065_10068_319_10892_317_10696_10084_453_454_10083_10618_10304_10307_10820_10821_537_10302_536_10902_10843_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103%2Csearchweb201603_59%2CppcSwitch_0&algo_pvid=9cf00a05-b59c-447b-83cf-bb12e925f0df&algo_expid=9cf00a05-b59c-447b-83cf-bb12e925f0df-7![]()
sorry fot the long links![]()
Also guys, any question you have about HV or x-rays, you can ask me anytime via DM![]()
Thank you!![]()
Thanks!![]()
Thanks, Fran![]()
I'l probably reach out when I have a little bit more free time![]()
Also one last thing, don't be afraid of failing![]()
I did 3 transformers for the machine:![]()
![]()
![]()
The first one died in 2 seconds, the second worked pretty bad, and finally the third was good enough![]()
@Fran Piernas thanks for all the vids!![]()
Keep in mind that there only one thing worse than seeing your device burning![]()
And that's seeing that it does NOTHING XD![]()
@Nevermore78 you're welcome :)![]()
Ahahahahah happened too many times![]()
Yeah, It also happened with the ZVS![]()
I did two![]()
![]()
![]()
this one never worked![]()
very dissapointing, I was expecting at least that it exploded or someting![]()
but nothing happened![]()
Any last minute question guys? xD![]()
what's your next project?![]()
hint?![]()
@Nevermore78 I'm buying the parts for a peltier based cloud chamber, I have the x.ray source, now it's time to build something to detect it![]()
Woah, that's gonna be nice!![]()
Yes, it should be much easier to do than the x-ray machine![]()
well I'm leaving now guys, thank you very much for the chat! -
Hack Chat Transcript, Part 2
02/21/2019 at 16:29 • 0 commentsI'm in Italy btw
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@guido.giunchi if I don't find something on ebay I usually look for it on aliexpress![]()
If you guys don't have a microwave transformer, another experiment you can do is a Marx generator![]()
pretty amazing too![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVXp3OkraMc
![]()
@Fran Piernas - is that where you sourced your dental X-ray tube?![]()
the one wire of output side of MOT is connected to the core and if you touch it you die, what about to built some insulating box for it?![]()
I bought it on ebay, I was extremely lucky to find it new from a US seller![]()
@vincent stuchly you can do it, however if you care about not touching it you are safe![]()
Hey @Sophi Kravitz![]()
I would have x-rayed my hand!![]()
MOTs are "low" voltage, just 2kV![]()
Got something for you![]()
Hi everyone!![]()
@Nevermore78 Hi partner!![]()
hmmm you're not near your terminal, better PM![]()
About sourcing tubes, it's the hardest part, I'd talk directly to the factory![]()
Here you have one: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/30mA-50mA-x-ray-tube-x_570569498.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normalList.263.70744e11DbxBOd![]()
And my tube's manufacturer: http://www.cei-xray.it/index3dab.html?l=eng in case you want an x-ray tube![]()
cool, how much was your tube? also what psu do you use for it?![]()
However there are other ways to make x-rays, try a 2C2S tube: https://tubes-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=906![]()
I once had a burned out rotating anode X-ray tube that was removed from service. The tungsten target was amazingly cracked and blistered from all the use. Powerful things.![]()
I could buy some for 2€ each on ebay![]()
Bet it still would have made X-rays, though. Alas, it broke when we moved.![]()
@anfractuosity my tube was 70€, very cheap![]()
@Fran Piernas What can you buy for 2€?![]()
@anfractuosity also the PSU, I build it, take a look to https://hackaday.io/project/162935-piernass-fast-zvs-mazzilli-driver![]()
@guido.giunchi a 2c2s tube, it's not designed to x-ray, but can be used for that purpose![]()
just don't expect to have the same results as when you use a genuine x-ray tube![]()
ooh thanks a lot!![]()
Yes, I build an x-ray machine using that tube many years ago![]()
![]()
![]()
This is the first machine I built![]()
Wow it is not so expensive as I thought!![]()
@Fran Piernas Did your tube come with a scintillation screen or did you buy that separately? I could not see that part on your Xray project list.![]()
@Glen Slade I bought the screen on ebay, an auction I won for 6€ XD![]()
You are right, I forgot to add it to the list![]()
It's a Fuji SpeedGreen![]()
Thanks![]()
I designed its support and printed it![]()
![]()
![]()
What is the smallest dot you can resolve in your xray machine?![]()
@guido.giunchi what do you mean, the smallest thing I can see?![]()
I'd think it would be limited by the grain of the phosphor screen, no?![]()
Yes, high speed screens are do emmit more light![]()
however they are worse at resolution![]()
But I haven't ever had a problem with mine![]()
It's also a function of the cathode size, as I recall from my radiologic technologist days. The larger the cathode, the less detail you can get.![]()
Yes, you want a point like x-ray emmiter![]()
Dental tubes have pretty small cathodes, if I recall correctly![]()
Yes, how detailed can you your scans get?![]()
Yes, the focus is very small![]()
@guido.giunchi here you have some examples:![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
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you see it works pretty well![]()
Do you guys have an automatic breaker at your houses?![]()
![]()
![]()
That's how it works![]()
@Fran Piernas , I think you mentioned that you're not even in the room when the X-ray is on. Is that correct?![]()
Neat! I love the circuit breaker shots!![]()
I'm not, I set a countdown and leave the room, then I go to another room where I didn't measure radiation and stay![]()
Or a use a remote desktop app to connect to the laptop![]()
and from it, send the command to the machine![]()
![]()
![]()
This example of the iphone, I like it a lot![]()
Smart move. Have you ever measured the maximum dose your setup can deliver?![]()
it shows the haptic engine![]()
@Dan Maloney I did some measurements, like this:![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqsy9tpHCf0
![]()
However, it's a counter so it counts radiation, it's bad at measuring high radiation![]()
a proportional meter has to be used for this![]()
@Fran Piernas how far was that from the tube?![]()
@Nevermore78 if I'm correct, 2 meters![]()
Yeah, but still - that thing isn't fooling around! Good to be careful with it.![]()
The shots are insanely cool! Do you ever think you can put yourself in danger with the high voltage and radiations?![]()
@guido.giunchi I don't think I'm getting radiation, I got to a room where I measured nothing but background radiation![]()
and about HV![]()
how is the radiation pattern around the machine?![]()
You could wear one of these! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_badge_dosimeter![]()
a pair of gloves do the trick, also If you are working with very HV, like >50000V, use liquid paraffin![]()
that's something that made me got mad, I spent a lot of time looking for HV insulators![]()
some people uses sunflower oil![]()
and I found that liquid paraffin from the pharmacy is a los cleaner and better![]()
@Nevermore78 it's hard to know, the machine does have lead shielding, but when it's activated, there is radiation in the hole room, mostly because of backscattered x-rays![]()
@neil k. sheridan - I followed that link and clicked through on "electronic personal dosimeter" - pretty cool, they're using PIN diodes and MOSFETs as sensors in all-electronic dosimeters now. No need to send film off to be developed.![]()
like you apply oil/paraffin to the gloves, right? I am hearing this for the first time so sorry for stupid question![]()
@Dan Maloney ooh! Interesting I will have a look at that!![]()
@vincent stuchly in fact you take you HV stuff and put it in liquid paraffin![]()
just like I did with the multipler![]()
right, haven't thought of backscatter!![]()
FYI, liquid paraffin is also called mineral oil here in the States. NOT baby oil - that has fragrance added.![]()
![]()
![]()
oh my bad, sorry got bit confused :D![]()
it's full of liquid paraffin (mineral oil) in there![]()
There are alternatives, oils that are designed for this purpose, but they are hard to find and very expensive![]()
I bought 1 liter of mineral oil for 10€![]()
https://hackaday.com/2018/09/18/a-look-at-liquid-dielectrics/
A Look at Liquid Dielectrics
One evening quite a few years ago, as I was driving through my hometown I saw the telltale flashing lights of the local volunteer fire department ahead. I passed by a side road where all the activity was: a utility pole on fire.
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![]()
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I did a test to the oil to see if it was suitable![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ARtZICuqGg
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the oil managed to stop arcs, as long as you avoid hard edged or corona effect will happen![]()
ooh![]()
what about kerosene?![]()
sorry haven't read scrollback -
Hack Chat Log transcript, Part 1
02/21/2019 at 16:26 • 0 comments@Jan ohhh right, yes, I have some x-rayed stuff
![]()
out of interest, do you use lead shielding?![]()
yeah, that's what I'd like to know as well. and a dosimeter?![]()
mm i was wondering about that too![]()
got my my complete face x-rayed a few weeks ago (teeth) and had to wear a full body lead apron![]()
I use a Geiger counter, it's what I have right now, but I'd like to use a proportional meter![]()
heh i've had my teeth x-rayed, i had to bite something that was very uncomfortable, not sure why, but don't think i had an apron![]()
that's just to keep them from moving I think!![]()
ah yeah heh![]()
yeah I had to. to keep steady for imaging![]()
before we start, I will answer any question and that includes technical ones of course![]()
@Fran Piernas just watched your youtube x-ray video. amazing![]()
linky? don't think i've seen that![]()
@Jan thank you so much :D![]()
@anfractuosity here you have ![]()
thanks!![]()
https://youtu.be/ASnp6982ty8?t=366
![]()
X-ray video is so sweet. seeing the HDD move...![]()
my favorite part, the HDD![]()
hasn't this been done to animals and humas as well in early X-ray days?![]()
ahh, so you're using phosphor screen right? (like krasnow did too?)![]()
*humans![]()
@Jan you mean live fluoroscopy?![]()
Yes![]()
@anfractuosity of course, digital screens are very, VERY expensive![]()
i'm curious, if it's possible to diy them![]()
if you skip the fibre part![]()
As late as the 1940s, some shoe stores had fluoroscopy machines in them to show customers how well their shoes were fitting.![]()
OK, folks, good turnout already and a good crowd in the chat. Let's kick it off with Fran Piernas talking about X-rays and high-voltage stuff.![]()
Fran, can you start us off with a little about how you got interested in this area?![]()
Yes of course![]()
First I will introduce myself![]()
Hello everyone, my name is Francisco "Fran" Piernas, I'm a 23 years old physics student at University of Granada in Spain. When I was a kid, I was that kind of kid that disassembled his toys to see what they had inside. I loved to disassemble anything. Sometimes my dad gave me a broken printer for me to disassemble it, and I was the happiest kid ever lol![]()
Then I started building small devices, until I saw a tutorial about a TV flyback using the 2n3055 transistor![]()
And I entered the amazing world of HV stuff![]()
If you guys haven't questions I can start talking about some HV projects I've done X)![]()
Cool, so much to be learned from taking stuff apart. I was always warned not to take TVs apart because of dangerous voltages. I ignored them, lol![]()
heh, how dangerous are the inside of old TVs, i'm kind of scared![]()
by the flyback things![]()
or in microwaves![]()
TV are dangerous if it's been working recently before![]()
But MOTs (microwave oven transformers) are the worst![]()
it's mostly still charged caps which were dangerous when opening old TVs :)![]()
is that because of the number of windings, re microwaves?![]()
A pair of good gloves do the trick, you should be safe then![]()
I scared of microwaves, TBH. Old CRT TVs aren't too scary.![]()
@anfractuosity mostly it's because the power![]()
ah, so more about the diameter of the wire maybe then?![]()
and a screwdriver to short caps. *boom* loved that!![]()
I have a video of a MOT doing some plasma![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOVhO8AXkrw
![]()
oooh![]()
what gas is in there?![]()
Those booms gave me the Shivers![]()
@anfractuosity just normal air at low pressure![]()
nice![]()
It heats up quickly X)![]()
Is that just a glass mixing bowl?![]()
Yes, my family and I used to eat the salad from it![]()
haha![]()
Greetingz!!![]()
This experiment is very simple and you can get some cool photos, I have some![]()
Seems to work well, why not?![]()
![]()
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@Fran Piernas How did you get the knowledge and tools to do hv?![]()
wuaaaaaauuu!!!![]()
do you have to worry about radiation, like UV etc. with that?![]()
Hi @guido.giunchi , I learned many things by doing them, with care![]()
Does the HV Oscillator work with vacuum tubes or with transistors?![]()
@anfractuosity it may emmit UV light, but just a moment doesn't hurt![]()
@[skaarj] what oscillator?![]()
Can you tell us about your projects please?![]()
I found that the plasma behaves differently if I rectify the MOT output![]()
@guido.giunchi yes of course!![]()
I'm interested in the CT one!![]()
here you can see when it's AC![]()
![]()
![]()
and here it's DC:![]()
![]()
There are a lot of things you can do with a MOT, just remember that it can kill you if you touch it![]()
you could try making a plasma tweeter with it too ;)![]()
Yes, I want to build one :D![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1u2QYEjuqw
![]()
this experiment was also done with a MOT![]()
ooooooh! that's awesome![]()
i really like those things![]()
There have been some videos on plasma firelighters, playing music on the arc ;)![]()
Love Lichtenbergs!![]()
In fact, that awas a project for a subject at university![]()
we investigated if Lichtenberg fractals are really fractals![]()
i _think_ there's something simiilar to what you've done there, with plastic isn't there?![]()
so we burnt them and done some maths, they followed an exponential law so they were fractals![]()
Again I am asking the same question: for the project in that picture with the glass dome - is the HV circuit based on transistors or on vacuum tubes?![]()
@[skaarj] you mean the plasma? just the MOT connected to the vacuum chamber![]()
and a microwave oven HV diode to turn AC to DC![]()
I do have a video about a vacuum tube![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4Co97kZxA4
![]()
@Fran Piernas - so is the oscillator @[skaarj] was referring to is just the AC line frequency?![]()
microwave oven transformer pffffffff I hate USA style of making words short![]()
@Dan Maloney yes, just the MOT connected to mains, that simple![]()
I thought it was some kind of vacuum tube oscillator and when I saw "MOT" I was wondering "what the hell kind of a MOTor is he using??"![]()
Oh I now understand![]()
nice work![]()
my bad @[skaarj] xD![]()
MOT means a car checkup here heh![]()
oh poor rectifier tube, why did you torture it like that?![]()
How did you do the "vacuum"? Simple oil rotary pump and a long hose to avoid arcs?![]()
nope... in every heavy industrial schematic involving high security and possible risk of lives - such as methan gas processing stations, petroleum drilling sites - MOT is electric motor![]()
@guido.giunchi I used a vacuum pump I bought on ebay![]()
for 100 bucks![]()
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