Lutetium-
Hack Chat Transcript, Part 4
05/29/2019 at 20:05 • 0 comments![]()
thanks again Bil for coming and thanks again to @spencer for his great project![]()
@Andrew Lindsay Thanks for swinging by![]()
@spencer Your project rocks!![]()
Have a good one bil![]()
@Linker3000 ... and I'm in Devon. There's DCLUG but other than that, I've never seen anything 'this far south'. :)![]()
Thanks @Bil Herd :-) Coming from you, that really makes me feel proud :D![]()
Oh, one l and not two. No wonder I was having trouble picking Bil out of the list of people in this chat. :)![]()
@spencer It helps anyone who thinks computers are too much a closed box to learn think otherwise.![]()
I like it because BASIC runs on EVERYTHING! It's a great starter project for anyone![]()
That, or FORTH. :)![]()
@Linker3000 If West Berks is close enough for you, NADHack are looking to have a full day of retro computing goodness as part of a local leisure and arts festival. Cant remember the date of the top of my head.![]()
FIFTH > FORTH![]()
Turbo Pascal!![]()
@kevin Told ya engineers are lazy, why type two "L"s if one will do >:)![]()
FIFTH? I don't think I've heard of that one.![]()
was a joke :)![]()
@Nils Andreas Svee , yes my mistake, thats the one.I'm slowly building a rp calculator. it will have 32 bit core memory using a kit i bought together with 8 digit 7seg display etc.![]()
One of the (many) things that I think is great about 1970/80/90s computers is that they are real computers that real human beings can understand. I think that is why the RC2014 strikes a chord with so many people. :)![]()
There was a "B" before there was a "C".![]()
@Andrew Lindsay Thanks - will keep an eye out.![]()
Fifth generally only available in events with bars!![]()
@AlanH :)![]()
It's always good to talk to people like Bil. I love the fact that he is encouraging people like us to do what we are doing![]()
OK, top of the hour approaches, and this was a really lively chat. I'll call official time and post the transcript from here, but feel free to keep chatting if Spencer can stay on. Either way, I'd like to thank him for taking time out to share his work and to geek out on retrocomputing with us. Thanks Spencer!And don't forget next week's chat - Disrupting Cell Biology with Incuvers. Well be talking about going from a simple lab project and building a company that specializes in bio lab instruments. Check it out at https://hackaday.io/event/164407-disrupting-cell-biology-hack-chat
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Well,one never knows. Someone might have written another FORTH variant and called it FIFTH.![]()
Hackaday is really cool that they make this kind of thing possible. -
Hack Chat Transcript, part 3
05/29/2019 at 20:04 • 1 comment![]()
would be cool to crowd-fund a proper injection molded case for it![]()
@Bil Herd That is true. Had a number of dev jobs for clients based on previous projects and things I've played around with.![]()
@AlanH There's a couple of designs on Thingiverse https://www.thingiverse.com/search?q=rc2014&dwh=895ceee066a05a3![]()
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@marblypup I couldn't resist uploading this photo of my Elektronika BK0010, I think it is. I've never used it - I haven't got pinouts for the connectors. It's got 4 identical 5-pin DIN sockets.![]()
@kevin I think one has to be really experienced to tell the strong suite of VHDL vs Verilog vs VHDL and I learned both at once since I was younger (couldn't do it now). However Verilog tends to be easier if not better outright. We joke that we can tell a lot about a company based on which one they choose for their official language.![]()
My apologies for suddenly pasting that image.![]()
@David Richards That is one of the early pitfalls when starting out with FPGA's. You have to try and think of the hardware and what can it can be doing at the same time and break the HDL in to related blocks of code.![]()
That thingverse link rocks.![]()
@Bil Herd exactly...I mean, look at me. I've been playing around with all sorts of stuff electronics wise, about 2 years ago a buddy of mine dropped a ball that they were looking for employees at the company he was working fro and now almost 2 years later they offered me an education and the oppertunity to get a better fitting job function :)![]()
and to learn stuff like I should![]()
most of my knowledge I have (still very basic) I have learned just by doing stuff![]()
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Do many of you that play around with modern hardware also tinker with genuine old (1980's or earlier) stuff?![]()
(That's my Z280 board.)![]()
I still play with vintage stuff. My 1802 board is a ceramic part from late 70's.![]()
I only work on new stuff, trying my hand on open source radar... I still have the tshirt from doing the old stuff.![]()
@spencer Do mostly modern mcu stuff for the day jobs, dont get enough time for retro computing.![]()
@marblypup I like the layout.![]()
I even have an old TI-9900 part in my parts drawer.![]()
ok.. i'm dragging out my box of goodies this weekend and working on my had.io project. rc2014 motivation = win![]()
FPGA on signlesided, very cute.![]()
Elektronika BK0010, one of the smallest LSI-11 compatible computers made. Probably the one sold in the biggest numbers...![]()
Well first I was mostly just playing around with old microcomputers, then it came to a point where I had to repair them, modify them and all that stuff, so the interests moved to learning how they actually work and designing stuff for them. and now even to a point where I want to design my own machine![]()
Anybody doing the latest Hackaday Prize challange?![]()
@Nils-Arne Dahlberg That's the one.![]()
@Lex Landa Thanks. The signals connected to the NVRAM are on 2 sides of the CPU, so rotating the CPU seemed easier than routing lots of stuff round a corner.![]()
It's awesome that this is inspiring people to dig out their old stuff :D![]()
@Dan Maloney See I'm plugging HAD. :)![]()
@spencer I have mainly played with modern microcontrollers, AVR, STM32, etc. But have a bunch of salvaged 80's 8-bit components and EPROMS. Working on eventually doing a retrocomputer with an 8085 I found. When I get time though...![]()
@spencer My scope runs from TTL/6502/Z80 to ESP32/RPi/BBC Micro:bit via GAL, AVR and PIC microcontrollers - with the odd valve radio restore and transistor-based stuff thrown in![]()
:) I'm not in the current HAD Prize challenge.![]()
@Bil - You're a good soldier![]()
Might we see future RC2014 boards based on high integration chips? Perhaps a processor board with a Z80 and a Z84C90 KIO chip or an eZ80? Or will the "Retro" in RC2014 be enforced?![]()
But the Elektronika MK-85 is probably the smallest LSI-11 computer ever made...![]()
@marblypup Could you post a photo of the back of the PCB, please?![]()
Now get them to buy tickets for the Supercon!![]()
@Lex Landa You learned something that can take an "experienced" engineer awhile to learn since they can sometimes be too wed to how things were done in the past.![]()
@Peabody1929 Bill Shen is working on a KIO using board![]()
@lex Not today, I think. The board's at home but I'm not. I dug that photo out of my Facebook!![]()
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I keep wondering whether to get an Electronica system for no good reason. I saw the soviet programmable calculators recently, they look nice too. One of the even earlier ones has a delay line memory.![]()
@marblypup No problem. I wondered what the track layout was like..![]()
(That's a 68010 compared with a KitKat clone :-) )![]()
@spencer I play around now and then on my old Sharp PC-1500. My other old computers have been sold or given away long time ago. (Sharp MZ-711, Sinclair QL, three Amigas...)![]()
@spencer I do retro including fixing old machines as a hobby and work with scary people who build 5GHZ CPUs at work![]()
If you look at some of the Terasic boards they did a 45 degree rotate as best option also.![]()
Break me off a peice of that kit... err mo-to-bar![]()
@Peabody1929 I don't "enforce" anything :) However, I tend to design the boards and modules that I want to use. Some people are putting quite highly integrated chips with lots of modern interfaces on them. That's great, because it means that I don't have to :)![]()
Good answer!![]()
I used to say that an engineer is the laziest workaholic you will find, but now I'm too lazy to even say that.![]()
Oops, wrong button![]()
Hehe![]()
@Bil Herd so true![]()
@spencer I am a software guy. I have a Unix like OS that like to port to retro hardware. But it is difficult to get any significant C-based software in 64Kb.![]()
So you've got people using smd components in other add on boards rather than just pure through hole designs?![]()
But yes, don't reinvent the wheel unless Marketing insists.![]()
This will be a good weekend to solder my RC2014 Plus.![]()
@Gregory Nutt rc2014 runs Fuzix banked![]()
I wish I could solder anytime soon. a bad hand injury is keeping me from doing it. been keeping me off a soldering iron for 5 weeks now![]()
@spencer and C compilers like lots of registers.![]()
Aw, the advantage of the 68K family.![]()
@David Richards the "normal" programmable calculators from the Elektronika MK series can be bought for not too much. MK-52 and MK-61 are commonly for sale on different sites.![]()
@Andrew Lindsay Quite a few of the 3rd party RC2014 Compatible Boards do use SMD parts. Everything that I supply, though, is through-hole (except for the CF socket, which I pre-solder, and the ESP8266 module)![]()
@19-rsn-007 Sorry to hear about your injury, I lost a finger a while back and it still scwers wit mi typng![]()
@Bil Herd I wrote a simple C-like compile for my 68HC11 and that's got 3 GP registers : -)![]()
@spencer any plans for VCF-West in August in Mountain View, CA or VCF-MW in September in Chicago?![]()
The 68HC11 is an absolute b@tch to program for![]()
@spencer Ah yes, spotted those. Tempted to try a CP/M setup next.![]()
@marblypup there is a gcc for 68HC11![]()
@AlanH YES! (And by "yes", I mean, yes, I really would love to go to a VCF event over there one day. I just need to organise myself)![]()
I will be at VCF West if your goin![]()
HC11 lives on today in the star 12![]()
Ahh, forgot, I got 2 older Macs stuffed away at my parents place... I suppose they need some love and change of capacitors soon...![]()
We did a retro home build panel at VCF East this year.it was the mk61 which took my fancy with the eeprom storage
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I keep trying to scroll back to read some of the scroll back and the chat window keep jumping to the latest messages before I can read some older ones that ran off the top of my screen. grrr.![]()
I'll be at both![]()
@Kevin I got that too. Will this chat log be available after the chat is over?![]()
@kevin, its very difficult to follow. i agree![]()
@spencer Any chance you might be going to the Liverpool Makerfest?![]()
@Kevin Yep, this UI is &^£$" irritating!![]()
I co-produce VCF-SE.. would love to have you in Atlanta next spring as well![]()
I try scrolling back to see the older messages too, but I know I've missed some. So, if anybody asked me a Q that I ignored, please ask again :-)![]()
@kevin I have the same problem. I'll try to prattle less!![]()
@AlanH Stop me and say hi if your there, I should be wearing either a Hackady tshirt or a COmmodore one bitching about Apple.![]()
yes, lets all prattle less, who agrees?![]()
@Bil Herd I was the 'audio guy' when you were here in Atlanta for your (late) talk :)![]()
I mean the esteemed competition.![]()
@pi314159atgithub YES! I've already got a stall booked for Liverpool Makesfest. Come and find me and say Hi!![]()
@Spencer Do CP/M and FUZIX have the same hardware requirements to run on RC2014? I know I have to upgrade my RC2014 Plus anyway. (I'm a bit more interested in FUZIX, because that might port well to the Gigatron, once we've the C compiler a bit more mature.)![]()
Ah I remember you!![]()
@David Richards eeprom is MK-52. That is on my look out for list. I already got a MK-61 some months ago. A mix of TI and HP. Form factor reminds of the old TI 57 etc (the ones with red LED display), but the MK-61 uses RPN, so the usage is more like the HP calculators...![]()
Since we're talking venues, is there much Retro activity on the South Coast UK (Sussex/Hampshire) - things never seem to get this far south, or I am just rubbish at knowing about them.![]()
I wonder if I could use OS/9 on the board I'm working on.![]()
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@spencer Glad to hopefully better weather!![]()
Thanks @spencer Will catch up with you soon. Got to drop off. Thanks for inspiring me on this. P.S. We are having a Retro-Computing day at NADHack later in the year as part of a local festival.![]()
That was the classiest stage I have been on, I tried to give VCF "stage envy" but it didn't work.![]()
I've just recently moved to FPGA because I wanted to drive an EL640.400 display... :)![]()
@Marcel van Kervinck I think @EtchedPixels is in a much better place to answer that :) My guilty secret is that I haven't actually used Fuzix. Yet.![]()
@Linker3000 FWIW, I'm on the Isle of Wight.Hack Chat Transcript, Part 2 05/29/2019 at 20:03 • 0 comments
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LOL It's not Western Digital.. It's Western Design Center![]()
Western Digital is the storage Co. It's Western Design Center ;-)![]()
(and 6502, 6809, 68000)![]()
(and 8085)![]()
(Used to work for Western Digital!)![]()
Right, Western Design Center.![]()
@Bil Herd oh, yes. The 6845 and 6847. Love those devices.![]()
@epooch Tindie has been absolutely perfect for me. In fact, if it wasn't for the Tindie platform, I think i'd probably still be a network engineer!![]()
@Kevin I've heard of the 6845, but what's a 6847?![]()
Or as we call WDC the BMC, (Bill Mench Company)![]()
6847 was a composite NTSC video chip, it didn't get as much airtime but really made you drool in the days of TVs as mnitors.![]()
@Kevin I am familiar with the 6845 from my BBC Micro days..![]()
I also have my own 68000 CPU board done quite a few years ago. My design but a friend of mine wired it up for me (point to point). It runs at 8MHz. I've finally bought a 68B50 that will allow me to run the CPU at 10MHz.![]()
What would you recommend or advice for implementing a CPU on an FPGA for the first time?![]()
@marten Awesome! It looks a bit like my Z280 board except that I turned the Z280 through 45 degrees. The result is so ugly I call it the Coyote280 :-)![]()
@Bil Ah.. that's why - we're in PAL over here. (UK)![]()
The really nice thing about the modular nature of the RC2014 though, is the community have really taken it to heart, and started designing their own modules for it. There's now well over 100 boards out there which were designed to fit the RC2014 ecosystem :-)![]()
MC6847 VDU was in the acond atom as well wasn't it?![]()
@Rudranand Sahu start from scratch![]()
19: and the Tandy MC10, Dragon 32/64, COCO, COCO2![]()
@spencer I like the modular design you came up with for the RC2014. I also noticed the adapter for a Pi. :)![]()
opencores.org is where I go for existiing CPU in FPGA cores![]()
@spencer is the RC2014 your sole biz or do you do other things too?![]()
I've got a book about old cathode ray tube controllers, inc. 6845.![]()
@Lex Landa PAL didn't look good even when set for the right mode/clock![]()
Three things every engineer should do: grow their own transistor, implement a CPU at an RTL level, and port a high level compiler to it![]()
do you do much FPGA retro implentation @Bil Herd ?![]()
@Kevin Thanks :-) Yes, the Pi Zero module was one of the first I made for it. It's the cheapest way to convert serial data in to HDMI :)![]()
:)![]()
Put you link for the ecosystem. :)![]()
@spencer what's the craziest rc2014 board you've sene![]()
s/ene/een![]()
@Linker3000 For 3 years now the RC2014 has been my only source of income #LivingTheDream :-)![]()
@Bil Herd Yes, as I recall, the aspect ratio was a bit strange.![]()
@AlanH - I've got a 1940's vintage germanium diode I plan to turn into a transistor. Does that count?![]()
ah SED or PERL (feels like Rodgers when he gets a flying money reference)![]()
Greetings, I bought an old 64 pin micro in a big ceramic and gold package recently. Hope to build it into something retro some day. Though I got it mainly to admire it looks.![]()
Basic RC2014 Module specs are here; http://rc2014.co.uk/1377/module-template/![]()
PAL had stripes, they never got the color clock phase inversion correct is my memory.![]()
@David Richards Do you know which it is?![]()
@spencer How long did the development take before you were felt it was ready for others to buy and use?![]()
@spencer You use bank switching with the large RAMs. How does that integrate with the software? Can you run an RTOS of some kind on it?![]()
*cough* RC2020 w/ a 68020 *cough*![]()
Ah the MMU question :)![]()
I've recently started playing around with my terasic DE0-NANO board...man that's a whole new level of programming and system design.Took me a month just to get the basics started and working.
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Well, there are at leat some RTOS source codes available for the Z180![]()
Thank you @AlanH, BTW which compiler is most beginner friendly to be modified to add a new architechture?![]()
a shift register and some leds shifting to right and when reaching the last bit shifting them back to the left![]()
I have three Xilinx FPGA boards. Easy to get the flashing LED going. FPGA's are a whole new ball game.![]()
@EtchedPixels I don't think any of the modules have been particulaly crazy. But I did release this one a couple of years ago https://www.tindie.com/products/semachthemonkey/rc2014-googley-eye-module/![]()
Check out the DE10-Nano, still cheap but Cyclone V and SOPC built in, I am looking at some midly heavy DSP with one.![]()
I wonder if that's why my Beeb keeps losing its colour, in composite..![]()
@Rudranand Sahu I've only done gcc which isn't simple, but there are a lot of existing examples![]()
What I would love to do is design a 6502 sbc and once the realy thing is finished, see if I can implent the thing into my fpga![]()
@kevin But you can WRITE hardware!![]()
@spencer LOL@googly eye![]()
@marblypup Sure, its a soviet pdp11 clone.description: KM1801VM3 (KM1801BM3) - Soviet 16-bit PDP-11 CPU with own NMOS ASIC design (by Angstrem factory)![]()
hehe... the googley eye board would be a lot of fun if you could control the movement of the eye part from the 2014. :)![]()
@spencer So how many googly eye kits have you sold?![]()
Easier to fix bugs with a text editor rather than a soldering iron.. but something to be said for projects like rc2014![]()
@david Crikey! I don't think I've ever seen a Soviet IC!![]()
@Gregory Nutt The bank switching on the 512k version is designed around Wayne Warthens OS Z-System, which is a modern efficient implementation of CP/M.![]()
@spencer forgive me for not knowing, do you make the design files available also?![]()
@Ed Thierbach None. It was only available for 24 hours on April 1st :)![]()
I have to disagree with you there @AlanH ..... I find it easier to fix stuff in hardware than in code![]()
I was referring to FPGAs![]()
@Bill Herd oh, I know. I have two Spartan 3 boards and one Spartan 6. I just haven't had a lot of time to sit down and do much with them yet. I did wire up 8 seven segment displays using charlieplexing and started driving them with one of my Partan boads.![]()
@19-rsn-007 Depends on the complexity of the code vs. the hardware![]()
It depends, if it's on mass scale then it's easier in software![]()
I know, but VHDL and verilog is new to me so fixing stuff in the code is harder for me at least![]()
@Bil Herd I make everything available except for the Gerber files. I'm more than happy for people to copy the rest of the design, but because I don't release the gerbers, I don't call it Open Source![]()
Open Source but not Open Hardware.![]()
FPGAs can poison the retro-well.. once you add that spartan-6 USB-everything bus analyzer module to a project like the rc2014.. might as well do the whole thing in programmable logic![]()
@19-rsn-007 My preference is to always fix things in hardware if I can too. That's because my software skills are lacking :)![]()
Around the RC2014 there are so many other implementations of CPU boards, motherboards - that actually its ok, that Spencer has not released the sources.![]()
@kevin Every example program you try is worthwhile. Just get used to turning things out from beginning to end and then also learn to simulate.![]()
hehe I know that problem @spencer :)![]()
@AlanH Interesting view... I was thinking of adding a graphics board to my 68010, based on an FPGA.![]()
Doing both hardware and software is fun. You get to decide when to use hardware and when to use software for some part of a project.![]()
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I've been experimenting with vhdl, its hard to move away from thinking sequential program logic to parallel logic.![]()
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One of the great things about RC2014 is the ability to "Design and Build Your Own". I went from the original RC2014 kit to a Z180 compatible RC2014 system of my own design. RC2014 provides the framework to make them compatible.![]()
The FPGA is a nice add on for creating hardware items not available any more ... especially video stuff![]()
Hm... I can't seem to find Bill Herd in the list to reply to him properly.![]()
@Peabody1929 That's a pretty little RC2014 :)![]()
@marblypup go woz old-school first and try it with a discrete design - maybe even with a 6845.. then cheat if you have to![]()
@kevin - try @Bil Herd - one L![]()
@David Richards VHDL is usually a little harder to pick up for newcomers than Verilog. With that said the best programmer I saw programmed using the same casting protections in VHDL (where you pre-define the heck out of everything) only in Verilog![]()
@alanh Well.. I'm aiming for 640x480x8 bits, using megabit VRAMs... 6845 a bit too primitive!![]()
@Bill Herd, yes. Using an FPGA to control multiplexed LED displays is a step up from flashing a single LED. It was a good way to start getting in to something more complex. The charlieplexed display can even be used for debugging FPGA projects as it can be used for text output using a 7 segment based alphabet.![]()
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@David Richards , yeah learning yourself to think different when working the same way to years is a pain...but the satisfying felling when things are working is great![]()
It gets to be an addiction 8)![]()
and in the end all worth it![]()
@spencer are there any case designs floating around?![]()
I read up on VHDL and Verilog. Based on what I read I felt that VHDL was the better language so I've been starting to use it even though my part of the world has Verilog as king.![]()
I am always intrigued to see what other people build for their RC2014. Everyone seems to come up with great ideas and awesome looking machines.![]()
@AlanH there are lasercut designs to sandwich the backplane![]()
@EtchedPixels You could sleep on that thing!![]()
Some day a job opportunity may arise because of something you have played with in your spare time.![]()
/me nods![]()
@linker3000 the cat does![]()
Hi, yes, multiplexed display was the first thing I had to to on my system. trial by fire, very rewarding when it worked.Hack Chat Transcript, Part 1 05/29/2019 at 20:01 • 0 comments
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OK, let's get started. I want to welcome Spencer Owen to the Hack Chat today to discuss his retro-clone of the ZX80, the RC2014. And anything else that comes up, of course.Spencer, can you tell us a little about how you ended up in the retrocomputing world?
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I have built up two CPU boards for the 09 and one control board.![]()
Hi! Yeah, I'm Spencer, and the RC2014 is my little Z80 based retro computer kit![]()
For me, it started out as my own project to see if I could build a computer on a breadboard... and it kind of went off the rails from there :)![]()
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Ow yeah another project I am dying to pick up is my diy ZX80 but with more RAM :)![]()
Was that the first working version?![]()
When the Retro Challenge came around in 2014, I decided to enter the challenge by converting the breadboard computer to a PCB based computer![]()
Looks a bit like the Z8001 computer I built in the early '80s, Spencer. (Wasn't retro, then, though!)![]()
good to see other people messing around with Z80 and 6500 series![]()
Yes, that's the first working one. Technically, the top 3 breadboards were the first one, and the lower ones were expansions![]()
@marblypup Got any photos of the Z8001?![]()
Were you working from docs or did you reverse engineer it?![]()
Thats ambitious doing that on a breadboard.![]()
There's a LOT of information out there via Google, although my board was hugely influenced by Grant Searles design.![]()
I am always amazed to see people do complex builds like that on breadboard.![]()
@spencer Good question! I used to cross-assemble for it from an Amstrad PCW, which gives an idea of how long ago I last used it! Still have it, housed in a cigar box :-)![]()
Love to know the split between old'ns who were doing this stuff first time round and coming back (if they ever went away!) for the nostalgia, and those getting in to retro stuff for the first time. (I'm in the first category).![]()
I love doing stuff on breadboard :)![]()
My main limitation is software, so I made sure it was compatible with Grants design so that I could run his implementation of Microsoft BASIC on it.![]()
I do but usually smaller items.![]()
If we really had to prototype something in the old days we used wirewrap... now hard to get cheap ww sockets, connectors, etc.![]()
@Linker3000 I got into digital electronics when I was 14: 1980.![]()
hehe wow I wasn't even born then![]()
I need to try wirewrap one day. I've heard lots of good stuff about it, although in my mind, it still looks fragile and unreliable.![]()
My 1802 CPU board I designed and built 39 years ago was built on real breadboard and is half point to point and half ww sockets.![]()
born in 85. grew up with the C64 as my main loved system![]()
@Bil Herd: Can be done with regular sockets: https://github.com/linker3000/Z80-Board![]()
@Linker3000 I started with a Sinclair ZX80 when I was 13 in 1980![]()
wirewrap has pretty well known impedances done right and there is no "loose" wires such as an inserted wire in a breadboard, many wraps around each post![]()
I was born in 71, and grew up as a Sinclair fanboy (Sorry Bill!). It's that Sinclair link that I chose the Z80 to start with![]()
hehe wow what are the odds of the 1802 getting mentioned! A friend of mine bought 3 boards with an 1802 on it and is playing around with one as we speak :)![]()
Hi @spencer![]()
@Andrew Lindsay Hey! How's your RC2014? :)![]()
I'm in the process of getting my 1802 board working again. It is, but there is at least one issue that I need to get to the bottom of for it to be back to 100%.![]()
@19-rsn-007 The 1802 was a very early CMOS MPU, wasn't it? (Never had my hands on one.)![]()
Actually, I've spotted quite a few names I recognise here as RC2014 customers, so I know that a lot of you already know about it. Is there anyone here that wants me to explain in a bit more detail what the RC2014 is?![]()
@spencer Still working, I really should get the Forth ROM programmed so I can give that a try.![]()
@spencer I first saw your RC2014 system in an EEVblog video.![]()
@marblypup : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_1802![]()
We looked at the COSMAC 1802 in the late 70's before there wasn'ta CMOS 6502, then we figured that our floating point routines would take a full second vs 150 ms![]()
I would like to learn about your plans for the future of RC2014. Is 16 bits on the roadmap?![]()
The EEVBlog video where Sagan builds the RC2014 Mini was awesome!![]()
hey @Bil Herd ! Great to have you here man!![]()
What CAD do you favor?![]()
I know. Sagan did a great job for someone so young.![]()
Yes @spencer - 'tis your shout so go for it. (How's the cat!?)![]()
@Peabody1929 I have looked at a 16 bit RC2014 (Using the 68000 processor), but despite a couple of prototypes, I've not got anything working yet. I think a couple of others are going down that route though, so there's likely to be someting 16 bit RC2014 compatible one day![]()
:)![]()
Would the backplane be a limitation on getting a true 16bit system going?![]()
@Linker3000 Mo is quiet and subdued at the moment. I don't think she liked her trip to the vet today :-(![]()
More wires. :/![]()
@spencer I build a very, very simple MC68010 computer several years ago... mostly because it was the biggest DIP I could find :-)![]()
The original Backplane 8 and Backplane 5 won't support 16 bit. But the Backplane Pro has 8 pins right next to the A0-A7 address lines which are unused. So that'll support 16 bit just lovely :)![]()
I like salvaging (old) mcu's. recently salvaged a 8051 compatible mcu with 64k flash and 8k's of ram with a max speed of 30MHz![]()
Ah, the 8051. Used to do loads with them and their variants.![]()
@marblypup The 68010 is a HUGE DIP chip. It takes soooo much force to insert or extract it. It's a beast to deal with :-)![]()
@spencer So, how did you go from hobby to side hustle to main gig? What did the decision process look like for you?![]()
Do you have supply chain issues using so many discontinued ICs?![]()
Give me 32 8051's and I can move the world, or at least build one bitchin vending machine controller![]()
hehe![]()
We used to call the DIP 68010 the Hershey Bar![]()
@Bil Herd LOL![]()
. @Bil Herd Just spotted your "What CAD" question. I'm a KiCad guy. Tried Eagle many years ago and never got on with it. The RC2014 was my 2nd ever PCB design, and KiCad just worked out well for me for that.![]()
Don't eat it Bill![]()
Bil![]()
Remember those pin compressors for big DIPs? Those were handy![]()
@spencer Hi. I'm just getting into PCB design, and I chose KiCad too.![]()
@epooch No, not really. Pretty much everything I use (or at least, the stuff that I sell) is still being manufactured. Even the Z80 chips are now coming out with a 2019 datecode on them![]()
build a machine that puts holes in walls @Bil Herd ;)![]()
great funny story :)![]()
I buy new from the mainstream UK distys (Farnell and RS) - often cheaper that the 'bay, where the sellers stick 'retro' in the description and bump the price.![]()
Heh I just saw the Caddyshack clip where Bill Murray eats the chocolate bar![]()
I think its still amazing to see, that most of the Z80 chips are still produced, but the 68K family is more or less gone !?![]()
Z80s were in lots of controllers.![]()
The very first iteration of the RC2014 was all made with salvaged parts. Thanks to a donation to Nottingham Hackspace, we had loads of old logic and memory chips to work with.![]()
I see them everyday...Z80's work at a company where industrial stuff is repaired![]()
@marten I got my 68010 from utsource.net. They have lots of old stuff, but probably not still being made. (Motorola begat Freescale which is now part of NXP.)![]()
@19-rsn-007 Yeah I have to explain that to my son some day and tell him not to do that.![]()
a lot of z80, 8031, 8051, 8085, 68k![]()
@marblypup There was the Dragonball microcontrollers for a while. They had a 68k core.![]()
Yes, but they are older that the Z80 and the 68K is also very well used the 80-95 and its still difficult 020 or 030 chips, the later is even more difficult to get![]()
For 16-bit 65xx/68xx an option might be: http://www.westerndesigncenter.com/wdc/ I am fond of the ez80 for almost retro too.![]()
@19-rsn-007 I'd love to know what kind of industrial stuff is still out there with Z80s in it. And is there still new industrial stuff being designed for Z80?![]()
@spencer So are you moving on PCB currently?![]()
onto![]()
what about the Z8 ? I know I have one around here somewhere. a romless version![]()
The Z-80 is one of my two favourite 8-bit CPUs.![]()
started to design a ezDuino/80 with a ez80... you haven't done robotics right until you've done robotics with CP/M![]()
@spencer Is this a good point to ask if you have any plans for a Z280 CPU board? I was thinking 8-bit Z80-bus mode, but it also has a 16-bit 'Z-BUS' mode (like the Z8000s).![]()
@kevin Whats your other (please say 6502)![]()
@Bil Herd Yeah, that breadboard photo I posted earlier was from 4 years ago. The RC2014 looks more like this now https://www.tindie.com/products/semachthemonkey/rc2014-classic-homebrew-z80-computer-kit/![]()
Z280 board is already available![]()
I work in the modern toy industry and the 6502 is alive and well in lots of dice/cob chinese toy ICs![]()
@marten Wahoo!![]()
@spence NICE. Love the form factor@![]()
!![]()
@Bil Herd I haven't really ranked them but it would probably be 6809, Z-80, then 6502. I loved what you could with the Apple ][ computers.![]()
@kevin I build a 68HC11 computer in 2006. That's essentially a 6809 MCU.![]()
Western Digital (the original 6502 designer) continues to develop and extend 6502 based parts![]()
Z280: https://feldtmann.ddns.net/rc2014/doc/z280-rc.html![]()
For those that don't know, the RC2014 is a very simple modular computer on a passive backplane. So that means that each individual module is very very simple, but also that individual parts are easily upgradeable. eg some people have already made a Z180 and Z280 CPU module for it.![]()
How has Tindie worked out as a sales platform?![]()
Yeah I like the 6809 and the 6845 and 6847 will always be dear to my heart as well (graphics)About Us Contact Hackaday.io Give Feedback Terms of Use Privacy Policy Hackaday API
OK, top of the hour approaches, and this was a really lively chat. I'll call official time and post the transcript from here, but feel free to keep chatting if Spencer can stay on. Either way, I'd like to thank him for taking time out to share his work and to geek out on retrocomputing with us. Thanks Spencer!
