IoT for Agriculture Hack Chat with Akiba

freaklabs5:43 PM
i think data science is a huge thing for small farmers. its one of the technologies that I think is very needed

enatalio5:43 PM
@freaklabs > I like it! data mining baby!

freaklabs5:43 PM
small point of fact, data science foundations are based on farming. ANOVA was designed to analyze agriculture experiments.

sadhana5:43 PM
My area of research is mostly in CO² enrichment to counteract climate change. More recently Ive been curious with methane enrichment through pines

Yves Quemener5:44 PM
@freaklabs I can help. I wish more environmentally minded people had the data in mind.

enatalio5:44 PM
@freaklabs > are you creating anything like sci-kit for ag?

matthewkleinmann5:44 PM
I tell you, when we first moved out here, near 20 years ago now, we rarely had tick issues. Now going in the woods and picking ramps, you just pick the suckers off of you when you come back in. It is very bad.

freaklabs5:44 PM
but one of the thngs I'm obsessed with is teaching experimental techniques to farmers. I think it can benefit all farmers, indie or big ag. and its something most don't know how to do. Even a simple single factorial with one-way ANOVA that can be done in Excel could hugely boost productivity

freaklabs5:45 PM
@sadhana : not really. i'm not sure how useful machine learning is for ag at the moment. I got a suggestion that ML could help afarmer determine when to pick a cucumber

matthewkleinmann5:45 PM
Big ag has control over a lot more than small. They have it down to about as tight as you can get it, with chemicals and irrigation.

freaklabs5:45 PM
@sadhana : i had to tell the guy you don't really need to teach a farmer when he can pick a cucumber

freaklabs5:46 PM
@matthewkleinmann : yes, there is a big focus on optimization

freaklabs5:47 PM
regarding the experiments, I think the interesting thing is that each farm is different iwth different soils. So running experiments on your own farm, speficif to your growing ocnditions can help identify how to optimize for that specific farm.

matthewkleinmann5:47 PM
Like for us, current decisions are when to bring plant starts out from the house into the greenhouse and than when to put them outside.

sadhana5:47 PM
MIT has the best machine learning system Ive seen in farming

enatalio5:47 PM
@admin> Is the entire chat threads available later on?

matthewkleinmann5:48 PM
One thing we are doing this year is I build a bunch of movable containers and we are going to try and put some things back in the greenhouse near the end of the season and see how long we can eke things out of them.

freaklabs5:48 PM
ie: what conditions can you germiante quinoa seedlings in for specific temperatures. these can be run in aquariums iwth small heaters. Knowing the optimal temperature of quinoa could tell you approximately what date you can plant quinoa in your region/zone

@enatalio -Absolutely. I'll copy the whole transcript and post it in the event page - https://hackaday.io/event/165315-iot-for-agriculture-hack-chat-with-akiba

Yves Quemener5:48 PM
@matthewkleinmann I find it intriguing that we don't have a good database for this kind of things. There are tons of local farmers almanach, but little in terms of well formatted databases

freaklabs5:49 PM
@matthewkleinmann : nice. that's ag reat idea for season extension. Actually we might have to copy you on that idea. it sounds realy interesting

enatalio5:49 PM
@Dan Maloney > Thanks Dan!

WRR5:49 PM
What do you all think about hydroponic/aeroponic greenhouses? It seems like you could control the environment and nutrients more easily, but I guess they might be expensive to make and maintain?

freaklabs5:49 PM
sorry about the divergent threads. I only have around a four chat history on my current laptop screen

freaklabs5:50 PM
ha ha ha.

Yves Quemener5:50 PM
It is 2019, your screen resolution is crazy but you can read less lines than a 1990 IRC discussion

freaklabs5:50 PM
@WRR : i think hydroponic greenhouses are really interesting. actually hydro is good for urban growing or if you need really dense growing.

Yves Quemener5:50 PM
/me goes back mumbling about kids on his lawn...

enatalio5:50 PM
@Yves Quemener > LOL!

Arsenijs5:51 PM
@freaklabs top left corner of the chat window, right above, there are two "hambugers", press the right one

matthewkleinmann5:51 PM
I will let you know how it works. The containers are small, about 1.5x the size of a 5 gallon bucket. I have a near endless supply of oak pallets and I set up a little factory in my wood shop and made them out of oak, with drainage holes in the bottom and runners you can can get a dolly under them.

Arsenijs5:51 PM

Thanks to everyone for stepping outside the usual schedule for this one. And next week's Hack Chat with OSH Park is going to be off-schedule too - we'll be doing it regular time (noon Pacific) but on Thursday rather than Wednesday - https://hackaday.io/event/164402-osh-park-hack-chat

I think people fail to appreciate how difficult solar is to do right from a mechanical engineering standpoint. Those arrays have a HUGE wind cross section, and you need to handle the forces correctly. If you don't, people can end up dead quickly.

freaklabs5:13 PM
We initially started with things like soil moisture sensing. FYI, my specialty is wireles ssensor networks and I love collecting data

nerd.king joined  the room.5:14 PM

freaklabs5:14 PM
What I learned from that was soil moisture is hard to measure accurately and you actually don't need that much precision. Many times you can eyeball it.

freaklabs5:14 PM
truthfully a lot of the sensors and IoT that companies are trying to sell to farmers aren't very useful, especially if they go out in the field.

sadhana5:15 PM
I think with food computers its pretty good to zero in on the right chemical balances through rigorously tested results. Its hard to know exactly whats in organic fertilizer, that can create issues with consistency.

nerd.king5:15 PM
Have you thought about small scale robotics? We have a lot of Beyond Organic farmers in central Virginia and I have been working with a couple to apply robotics to some of their labor intensive tasks.

enatalio5:15 PM
@freaklabs > What's your ultimate vision for the data?

sadhana5:15 PM
Dirt varies quite a bit

freaklabs5:15 PM
for example, soil moisture sensors that get put in the soil are almost useless. the reason is the farmer needs to be able to till the soil after the crop is harvested. that means they have to pull up all those expensive sensors before they till. it adds more labor which is a no-no to farmers who are already labor constrained

matthewkleinmann5:15 PM
My solar is very small. One building is 100W and the other is under that. If I need real power like when I am building I will drag a generator out. I also have my home brew CO2 powered framing nail gun.

nerd.king5:16 PM
Should you be targeting no till operations then?

enatalio5:16 PM
@freaklabs > How about a drone with infrared. No need for physical sensors.

freaklabs5:16 PM
@sadhana : we invited one of the guys from MIT Media Lab to give a talk on food computers. it was interesting, but the final result is he's also interested in field growing.

matthewkleinmann5:17 PM
@Freaklabs if you are growing things in the ground, do you have an irrigation system? If you don't what is the point of monitoring the soil moisture unless you have a means of controlling it

@freaklabs - Doesn't that just scream for a tiller that can sample and measure the soil on the fly? And perhaps log the data along with GPS data as it works the rows?

freaklabs5:17 PM
@sadhana : I think soil-less and soil growing are two techniques of growing. we have no bias actualy and are experimenting with hydro as well as mist growing, and field growing

sadhana5:17 PM
It helps food computers to have field farming data to replicate the soil conditions, makes sense

freaklabs5:18 PM
@Dan Maloney : that's what the john deere tractors do, and I think that would be an interesting open source technology. We mainly owrk with indie farmers and if you look at their technology needs like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, many of them are not even on the bottom rung of hte ladder

matthewkleinmann5:18 PM
Again, you can measure and log but if you have no means of control it is kind of pointless, IMHO.

Jim Tittsler joined  the room.5:18 PM

freaklabs5:19 PM
From working with indie farmers, although its nice to have technology for automation, they actually need technology to generate revenue. basically many of them need help with basic business principles like marketing

matthewkleinmann5:19 PM
If you can afford anything green and yellow you are not here (smile)

freaklabs5:20 PM
we run python workshops and arduino workshops, but the most popular are media arts, ie: photoshop and video editing workshops since they can use them for marketing.

freaklabs5:20 PM
we also do weekly marketing workshops where we discuss marketing principles and how to market authentically

freaklabs5:20 PM
and get their stories out. many of the farmers we work iwth have really interesting stories, especially about their food.

sadhana5:21 PM
It would probably also help food computers to have global networks of spectrometers to replicate seasonal lighting conditions

matthewkleinmann5:21 PM
Marketing is the hardest part and some crops are boom or bust. Mushrooms are very bad that way. You get a flush all at once and you have a very limited amount of time to sell them.

enatalio5:21 PM
@freaklabs > In Japan? (workshops , etc...) is that right?

freaklabs5:21 PM
So one one hand, basic tech like photoshop, premiere proficiency is needed for revenue generation. then on the other, tech is needed for automation to reduce labor cost

nerd.king5:22 PM
@freaklabs Have you looked any of the Open Source Ecology stuff? They have been building all sorts of open farm equipment.

freaklabs5:22 PM
@enatalio yes: in Japan. we will put together acurriculum we can take on the road too. We want to do more collaborations iwth farmers abroad also

freaklabs5:22 PM
@nerd.king we were in contact with them for a bit, but haven't built any of their stuff yet

freaklabs5:23 PM
Re: automation, I think this is where a lot of the technology seems to focus on, especially in the news. This would be drone, ag robots, machine learning, etc.

enatalio5:23 PM
@freaklabs > Nice! How about a links to the info?

Alex Muir joined  the room.5:23 PM

freaklabs5:24 PM
We'll actually be posting all the workshop info on the github page. Some of it is already up there, but we're still evolving things. Basically anything developed at hackerfarm is open source, including workshop and technology

matthewkleinmann5:24 PM
Automation you are generally talking big ag though, not small.

sean5:24 PM
@freaklabs I'm interested in building a roving a drone that identifies and deals with weeds in beds. I'm starting to learn python and tensorflow for machine learning. Do you have any experience with something like that, or have heard of anyone else that would?

freaklabs5:24 PM
@matthewkleinmann : yes, and that's an important distinction. there's a growing digital divide beween industrial ag and indie ag.

https://hackerfarm.jp/

HACKERFARM

Home - Hackerfarm

Here at Hackerfarm, we host quite a few residencies with people that come through and ...

Read this on Hackerfarm

Jared5:25 PM
@freaklabs you found that the soil sensors have been less-than-useful. Have there been any bits of technology that have surprisingly added lots of value to what you guys are doing?

sadhana5:25 PM
I know what you mean about the booms and busts freaklabs. One of the biggest challenges I saw at a vertical farm was growing the right amount at the right time. Too much and it all becomes compost, too little and you upset distribution companies

sean5:25 PM
@Dan Maloney thanks for the link

freaklabs5:25 PM
@sean : yeah, actually we are working with a group sponsored by Sony on a weeding robot. It's being worked on by one of our robotics and AI specialists out here. they are sending an intern this summer. If you wan tto talk to him, let me know your contact details by PM and I'll introduce you

enatalio5:25 PM
@Dan Maloney > Thanks for the URL

sean5:26 PM
@freaklabs Awesome, thanks.

matthewkleinmann5:26 PM
I got my grapes from a vineyard for free that went to automated picking. They needed one plant removed from every row because the machine that does the picking could not turn the corners without hitting the fence. Humans could pick right up to the fence..

freaklabs5:26 PM
@matthewkleinmann : farmers that partner up in the monsanto, dow, or john deere community get access to their data and technology. those that don't....well don't

matthewkleinmann5:26 PM
They are all big $$. We are microscopic.

freaklabs5:26 PM
@matthewkleinmann : which is why there's a need for open source technology and even more, for training on how the tehcnolgy can be used in specific farming contexts

matthewkleinmann5:27 PM
The tech that will help the little guy, IMHO is almost all simple and low tech.

enatalio5:27 PM
@matthewkleinmann > Brains beats Buck$ anyday!

sadhana5:27 PM
Id really like to visit that some time :)

freaklabs5:28 PM
for hackerfarm, we're trying to standardize our tech workhsops on python for genral programming and C/C++ for Arduino. we are still looking at micropython for embedded but are on the fence at moment

freaklabs5:28 PM
@sadhana : thanks! we have an open house at the end of the month and have workshops, tours of the area, etc. people are invited to stay the night at our residency spaces :)

matthewkleinmann5:29 PM
Exactly how is python going to help you?

freaklabs5:29 PM
@matthewkleinmann : actually automation isn't that useful for farming. the real issue is that produce prices are so cheap because big ag has driven the price into the ground.

freaklabs5:30 PM
a useful analogy (for here) is electronics components. buying hand crafter artisan resistors is nice, ut you can get a 5000 piece reel for around $2

matthewkleinmann5:30 PM
You grow things you can use. We do more bartering than selling.

freaklabs5:30 PM
You can also get a quad core 64-bit processor for $5. so from that point of view, selling components is difficult if you dn't have the economy of scale

enatalio5:30 PM
@freaklabs > R U creating python libraries for ag work?

sadhana5:31 PM
I use raspberry pi running lighttpd and a javascript library for serial control of arduino to sense and actuate from the browser

freaklabs5:31 PM
what needs to happen is that a lot of farmers need to have some type of value-add. This is the differentiation which could be how the food is processed, how it's grown, or growing speficif types that are unavailalbe by industrial ag

enatalio5:32 PM
@sadhana > are you in Japan too?

matthewkleinmann5:32 PM
You need to see big ag. It is all high tech. But they have the acerage to make it reasonable.

@freaklabs - Good point! Fruit farms can do ciders and vinegars, apiaries can do mead, etc.

sadhana5:33 PM
Im in Colorado

matthewkleinmann5:33 PM
You should see the high tech dairy farms.

freaklabs5:33 PM
this is where the marketing needs to come into place. if a farmer that grows blueberries goes up against inddustrially grown blueberries, they will have a hard time competing just based on price. but if they sell handcrafted blueberry jam, they can usually increase their profit margins by a large amount. So we are trying to work with farmers to identify how they can move up that value chain rather than competing iwth industrial ag

freaklabs5:33 PM
the big problem with agriculture is it's devolved into a go big or get out mentality.

sadhana5:34 PM
Blueberries are difficult due to dormancy :(

freaklabs5:34 PM
many farms are tyring to go big, and taking on huge risks, and the smaller farms won't have the economy of scale to compete. it's turning into a gamble and the lifestyle is unsustainable. that's hwy there are less and less farmers

enatalio5:34 PM
@sadhana > Ah great to know. It's my 1st time here and would like to connect by other means. How do I reach out to you?

And don't discount the intangibles when looking at adding value. People will pay a premium for locally grown produce - if they're properly educated.

matthewkleinmann5:34 PM
You can also do u picks or sell them on being better. Welches sells a lot of jam. And they are hard to sell to. From on the plant to in the plant in under 2 hours I think my friend said.

freaklabs5:34 PM
@sadhana : PM me here and I'll get back to you

freaklabs5:35 PM
@sadhana : hard to talk with my screen scrolling so fast

sadhana5:35 PM
Will do

matthewkleinmann5:35 PM
@sadhana in Colorado you have a lot of high profit crops you can grow and barter with.

freaklabs5:36 PM
its actually fascinating because within agriculture, you can hit a good balance of cutting edge technology and old-world knowhow.

freaklabs5:37 PM
I think there is no problem to attract young people into agriculture, which is what eveyrone laments about. There needs to be training in technology within the context of agriculture, and in exchange they work in our fields. this is forming the basis for our residency program

matthewkleinmann5:37 PM
With ag, unless you are growing indoors you have very little control over things. You can do a lot of measuring but at the end of the day, if you get no rain, or too much, or a late in the season freeze etc...

freaklabs5:37 PM
You learn programming, electronics, and general technology in exchange for field work.

sadhana5:37 PM
Yeah definitelt Matthew

freaklabs5:38 PM
@matthewkleinmann : yes, that's the big problem with agriculture. if you're making big bets, ie: going all in on soybean, you don't know how the prices wil be at harvest. this is the problem with te soybean farmers and the tariffs iwth china. they lost almost the whole market for soybeans

freaklabs5:39 PM
@matthewkleinmann : in this case, it's manmade disaster, but the recent floodings and fires are also natural disasters tha tyou have to deal with. in many ways, farming is about managing risk, but in the current go big environment, the risk is multiplying

freaklabs5:39 PM
@matthewkleinmann : and we can see the result in increasing farmer suicides

Yves Quemener5:39 PM
hi, reading the backlog, happy to see I did not miss it totally

freaklabs5:39 PM
hmmm....sorry to rant and go a bit dark. it kind of bugs me

freaklabs5:40 PM
Hey Yves. So Yves is the AI and roboticist at hackerfarm

matthewkleinmann5:40 PM
And even the highest tech will not save you. Last year we had a false spring in the end of winter. All the apple trees started blooming and of course it froze again and killed all the blooms. We had just a few apples, but the entire state, and we are a big apple producer, was screwed that year. All the tech in the world could not make it stay warm.

freaklabs5:40 PM
and also runs most of the python workshops :)

enatalio5:40 PM
The threads are really hard to follow?

freaklabs5:41 PM
@matthewkleinmann : yeah, those are brutal. its interesting because i didn't fully worry about climate change until i got involved with farming

freaklabs5:41 PM
@enatalio : yeah, I need a longer screen...

@matthewkleinmann - Co-locate orchards with Google server farms?

matthewkleinmann5:41 PM
Climate change is very real.

matthewkleinmann5:41 PM
@dan na, bitcoing miners. (smile)

matthewkleinmann5:42 PM
oope, bitcoin miners..

I'm only partly kidding - moving shipping container server farms around to where heat is needed isn't a half-bad idea.

freaklabs5:42 PM
actually if I look at the weather data from the past 25 years in this area in Japan (from the Jpaan meteorological website) you can actually see the warming trends. its quite fascinating. its something I'd like to create a python data analysis workshop around

matthewkleinmann5:43 PM
The thing is the server farms pop up where power is inexpensive so that kind of limits where they like to be.

Hack Chat Transcript, Part 1 05/16/2019 at 01:04 • 0 comments

freaklabs4:21 PM
I was trying to prepare things to post, but then couldn't exactly figure out the audience. I mainly talk to indie and organic farmers to my slides are less tech-dense. But I expect that people in this chat will be very tech-focused

freaklabs4:22 PM
I think it will be interesting because you can go both ways very easily in agriculture. super tech-averse (eg permaculture, holistic) and then super tech (drones, machine learning to identify cucumbers)

You'd be surprised. I've found that there's a good amount of crossover to the ag world from tech types. Kinda like how a lot of hackers are also musicians.

freaklabs4:25 PM
Yeah. Actually we get a lot of residency requests at hackerfarm from tech people. I feel like tech people spend so much time in their head and they need an outlet with physical labor and connection to nature.

Interested in your take on permaculture and tech. Have you found the permies to be tech-averse? I just love permaculture, specifically because it tickles my tech side. We can leave this to the Chat, of course.

Arsenijs4:25 PM
well then, seems like you knew your audience all along =)

Exactly! My garden was always my retreat from working at home - head out and water or weed for a couple of minutes to recharge

freaklabs4:26 PM
it will proably come up again. but yeah, I'd say most permaculture people I've met are more on the tech-averse side. I think there's a bit of offensiveness in having electronics in an area they are trying to make holistic and naturally viable

freaklabs4:27 PM
bunnie huang does regular residencies out here. when he comes, he mainly just asks for the most brute force manual labor where he doesn't have to think

freaklabs4:27 PM
we're generally happy to oblige. but i can also understand.

freaklabs4:28 PM
what kinds of things are you all working on

I guess I see the point of keeping the silicon out of a sustainable system. But then again, what hacker would groove on solving problems with gravity to move water over the landscape, or getting the mix of plants and animals to do the work for you?

freaklabs4:31 PM
i agree. actually we do know some permies that are curious about how tech can integrate into natural systems. we're working on solar powered devices and using natural materials like bamboo as enclosures so the electronics and tech are more or less hidden. Projects like that are generally focused on water (ie: solar pumping to higher ground for harvested rainwater gravity irrigation system) or non-threatening wildlife deterrence

freaklabs4:33 PM
It's also interesting since agriculture got us involved in the larger water management technology for orgs like World Bank and wildlife conservation technology. Kind of unexpected offshoots...

sean joined  the room.4:33 PM

I'm working on something like that now. Just bought 23 acres of raw land, need to start managing it. Water is on the lowest part of the lot, so I need to find a way to harvest it and bring it up to livestock ponds. We're planning on grazing cattle there.

freaklabs4:34 PM
Oh damn! 23 acres. Ha ha ha. That's going to be fun.

Needs to be a hands-off thing since it's an hour drive away, so I need to put in remote monitoring to help me manage it.

Jared joined  the room.4:35 PM

freaklabs4:35 PM
Grazing animals are the way to go to keep the grass and weeds under control. We keep getting offers to have goats, but we're worried that if they get off the properties, they'll eat up all our neighbors farm plots

freaklabs4:37 PM
there are a lot of interesting designs for rainwater harvesting. The simplest are usually some poles and a tarp. Depending on your location, you can harvest a lot of water. Our rain barrels are almost always full which is kind of sad since it means we should add more capacity.

Goats are like that. We're looking to rent out grazing to a small herd of longhorns. Pretty docile and not interested in wandering. Looking forward to their brush-clearing skills as well as their poop.

Chris Gammell4:38 PM
hey Akiba!

freaklabs4:38 PM
yeah, that's a great way to prep the land for farming. what are your plans for the lot? mainly cattle grazing or subdividing it into plots too?

freaklabs4:38 PM
Hi Chris!

freaklabs4:38 PM
Oh, Amp-Hour in the house!

Benjamin Blundell joined  the room.4:39 PM

Chris Gammell4:41 PM
looking forward to hearing about how the ag stuff is going

Chris Gammell4:41 PM
have been following some of your updates

Chris Gammell4:41 PM
but I have all but abandoned FB, so less so than before

freaklabs4:42 PM
I'm still on a learners journey. The farmers around me are like 80 years old and know all the old world tricks of doing things. But things I grow are dying less now so pretty happy :)

freaklabs4:42 PM
Chris: How are things going with you?

freaklabs4:46 PM
Dan: We recently rented a house on it's own mountain and it comes with ~25 acres of forested land. We're frantically studying forest management now and are looking into taking arborist, tree-climbing, and chainsaw workshops.

Chris Gammell4:47 PM
going really well! Have been doing a couple of remote monitoring projects for consulting, have really enjoyed the new lifestyle of bouncing between projects

Chris Gammell4:47 PM
Also KiCon was a lot of fun, I'm still on a high from that :-)

freaklabs4:47 PM
Dan: So I feel you when you say you have 23 acres of remote land.

freaklabs4:48 PM
Chris: KiCAD seems to have come a long way. it's quite impressive now

freaklabs4:50 PM
Chris: Did you give a talk at KiCon?

enatalio joined  the room.4:50 PM

Jeff joined  the room.4:50 PM

@freaklabs - the 23 acres will probably just stay as raw as possible. Lots of trees, some pasture, so we'll work on a forestry plan to maximize the timber value 20-30 years down the road. My kids can then do a timber sale and reap the benefits. Until then, spring and summer grazing, fall hunting.

Chris Gammell4:52 PM
Just the opening talk and moderating panels. That was enough

freaklabs4:54 PM
Dan: Nice plan. Just having a retreat is an awesome thing to look forward to. But I suspect it will slowly draw you in. I can see your inner homesteader already ;)

enatalio4:54 PM
Hello, freaklabs and everyone. Any recommendations on how best to find ag land? That you've experienced is the best way?

matthewkleinmann joined  the room.4:54 PM

freaklabs4:54 PM
Dan: the warning signs are: 1) plans for a cabin 2) a sudden interest in soapmaking 3) food sustainability

enatalio4:55 PM
I'm actively looking but places are too far away to see it and "walk it."

sadhana4:55 PM
Hey its been a while hack chat. Still working on my aeroponic farm which has become quite the crazy food computer. Project page needs a gigantic update from everything I've learned since working as an electrical engineer at a vertical hydroponic farm and my recent move to a grow controls automation company.

freaklabs4:55 PM
@enatalio : in Japan, it's through local connections. depending on where you are, it could be easy or hard to find land. if you live in an urban area, you might need to look at rooftops or vacant lots. In general you can do raised beds, in those places and grow lots of things.

freaklabs4:56 PM
In rural areas, depends on how much empty land is around

Phew! No soapmaking plans yet. But I do collect wood ashes...

matthewkleinmann4:56 PM
You need a back wods rig. I have a 4x4 4 wheeler that fits in a trailer that I can pull with my truck but the trailer can also be pulled with the quad.

freaklabs4:56 PM
Dan: LoL....you've already been bitten

enatalio4:57 PM
So i'm in central Texas. Lots of land but incredibly expensive.

freaklabs4:57 PM
@enatalio : if that's the case, talk to people about growing on their land and giving them a portion of the harvest. especially if they are just using it for lawns or they are unkept.

matthewkleinmann4:57 PM
I have a few buckets of ashes too. I made some not so strong lye a few years back. We have a cow processor around the corner so I can get as much fat as I want.

I would totally rent out plots on my land to anyone who wanted to farm it.

matthewkleinmann4:58 PM
One thing to look into Re: land is forest farming. Keeping at least some of it natural.

freaklabs4:58 PM
@enatalio a lot of market farmers I talk to in urban areas go this route. they have to maintain the aesthetics of small plots, but the owners generally like all the interest that having organic vegetables in their front yard generates

freaklabs4:59 PM
@matthewkleinmann : oh, regular source of tallow....nice! jealousy....

freaklabs4:59 PM
@matthewkleinmann : also things I wouldn't have said 5 years ago...

sadhana4:59 PM
Forest farming isnt bad for mushrooms since many barks facilitate inoculation

enatalio4:59 PM
@freaklabs > Looking into leasing but too many variables. great suggestions though

matthewkleinmann4:59 PM
We grow mushrooms under the canopy of the woods out back... Others grow ginseng. We have fields and pasture too.. But we keep some land wooded.

Welcome everyone! Even though we've been chatting for a least a half hour now, I'll make it official and kick things off with the IoT and Agriculture Hack Chat. A big welcome to Akiba @freaklabs and a thanks for accommodating us from Japan today.

freaklabs5:00 PM
@sadhana @matthewkleinmann we are keeping the land near the house as farmland. there is also an orchard, but the larger mountain is forest so we'll be starting to re-maintain the hiking trails and manage the forest actively

@freaklabs - Care to give us a little background on yourself?

freaklabs5:00 PM
Hi Dan and thanks for having me. Also having fun chatting already :)

matthewkleinmann5:01 PM
BTW, a few years ago I built a spiral pump to irrigate the Shataiki logs. Easier than putting them in the water...

freaklabs5:01 PM
Yeah, around 6 years ago, me and some friends started hackerfarm on a whim.

freaklabs5:01 PM
It was one of those things like: "wouldnt it be cool if....". little did I know what I was in for.

sadhana5:01 PM
Ive been thinking of making mushroom cultivation systems since mushrooms have decriminalized here in Colorado, my main interest is domesticating some of the pricier gormet mushrooms

matthewkleinmann5:02 PM
Shataiki 's are what you probably want.

freaklabs5:02 PM
First three years, we were having trouble finding a focus. were we a hackerspace? a farm? tech focused, education focused, farm focused?

Wait - mushroom cultivation was a crime?

sadhana5:02 PM
Chanterelles are what Ive had my sights on

sadhana5:02 PM
Psycilocibin Dan

freaklabs5:02 PM
Last two years, decided to focus on agriculture and how technology fits into agriculture. Surprisingly, most indie ag operations need basic technology but not hte advanced ones you see in the press

Honestly, I think family farms were the original hackerspaces in a lot of ways. At least in the US, and through the 1950s or so

matthewkleinmann5:03 PM
Psilocybin mushroom cultivation is.

Ah - shrooms, not mushrooms

freaklabs5:03 PM
And we went from one residency house initially to two houses, two cafes, two greenhouses, and six farm plots

enatalio5:03 PM
@freaklabs > Can you give some examples of the simple ones?

freaklabs5:04 PM
so now we spend a lot of time on logistics, operations, maintenance of the places, as well as the farming. we're starting to take in residencies from next year, although we are experimenting with it with friends from this year

sadhana5:04 PM
Freaklabs have shipping container hydro farms seen much success in Japan?

freaklabs5:04 PM
@sadhana not really. there is a lot of interest in soil-less techniques in tokyo, mainly because it's really hard to get soil there

enatalio5:05 PM
@freaklabs > Why is soil tough to get?

freaklabs5:05 PM
Also, my background is originally in chip and FPGA design. Also do electronics hardware and firmware programming. getting deeper into python since it's such a fun language

freaklabs5:06 PM
@enatalio : in tokyo, you have to buy it and since most poeple don't have cars, you have to lug a 15 kg bag of soil on to the trains and subways. it's not pretty.

@freaklabs I was actually surprised to see how comfortingly rural your area is. Not at all what I pictured Japan to be like.

freaklabs5:06 PM
@enatalio : also, 15 kg of soil doesn't get you very far.

matthewkleinmann5:06 PM
I have pondered trying an aquaponic setup. We have a lot of fish in our pond. One of my pals was so bummed when I would not let him dump algicide and dye in it a few years back. We have one of those aeration windmills for it and that keeps it healthy.

sadhana5:06 PM
Lol you can barely get on the subways as it is

freaklabs5:07 PM
@Dan Maloney : yes, its interesting. we're only 1.5 hours outside of Tokyo but population drops off like crazy. Where we are, its rapidly depopulating since Tokyo sucks all the young people up like a magnet

matthewkleinmann5:07 PM
If you have tried aquaponics, what did you use for the physical growing medium?

freaklabs5:07 PM
@sadhana : yeah. you get a lot of mean stares if you're lugging a 15 kg sack of soil. don't even think about buying cow poop...ha ha ha

sadhana5:08 PM
Ive had this batshit idea of batponics, feeding fruit bats produce in exchange for guano which makes more produce. seems like a bacterial nightmare though.

Esteban Berná joined  the room.5:08 PM

freaklabs5:08 PM
@matthewkleinmann : one of the guys here specializes in hydro and aqua techniques. You basically use same mediums as hydro but have to choose the fish and fish food

freaklabs5:09 PM
We also talked to fish farms who interestingly enough, have a problem disposing of their waste water. Problem is it's too rich in nitrogen from all the fish waste so they can't dump it.

freaklabs5:09 PM
But that stuff is like gold to a farmer...

matthewkleinmann5:09 PM
I was pondering just using pond water and a swirl and skimmer filter. Use an inexpensive bilge pump and either solar or finish off the vertical windmill to power the water transfer..

freaklabs5:10 PM
@sadhana : It's actually a good idea. guano is supposed to be a great source of nitrogen. regarding bacterial issues, its the same with all poop. needs to be composted properly and for a specific amount of time.

freaklabs5:10 PM
@sadhana: human waste needs at least 6 months of composting to remove dangerous bacteria

sadhana5:10 PM
What i learned from working at a vertical hydro farm was that aquaponics is hard to consider organic or foodsafe due to the varying degrees of nutrient quality made from fish waste

Might it not be too hot? I know I have to let my chicken poop mellow a while before using it.

freaklabs5:11 PM
@Dan Maloney : I like using chicken poop but can't take it directly fro the farms. it will burn the plants since the nitrogen levels are too high

sadhana5:11 PM
In some ways its better to carefully control your nutrients to produce cleaner than organic phenotypes

matthewkleinmann5:11 PM
Power is a big issue for a lot of things. I have solar in a few of my "outposts" and I built the main part of a vertical mill. Only I am having a hell of a time digging the post hole for it. Digging in spoil from the pond and the pond hit bedrock at about 4 feet. They had fun chipping through that, but the spoil is hard to dig in.

matthewkleinmann5:12 PM
Chicken crap is best aged a year or more before you spread it. It is very hot right from the bird.

freaklabs5:12 PM
@sadhana : actually I think its better not to control the nutrients too tightly. a lot of the food we eat these days are using chemical fertilizers. but natural compost have trace minerals that plants and humans need. those trace minerals go into the vegetables and into our bodies as we eat them. its hard to duplicate this process using chemical fertilzers which just specialise in nitrogen, phosphorus, and postassium

sean5:13 PM
@freaklabs What are some examples of technology assisted/driven endevours you've implemented in the farms?

Going up?

About Us Contact Hackaday.io Give Feedback Terms of Use Privacy Policy Hackaday API

© 2025 Hackaday

By using our website and services, you expressly agree to the placement of our performance, functionality, and advertising cookies. Learn More

Ok, I agree