Lutetium-
Hack Chat Transcript, Part 3
04/08/2020 at 20:30 • 0 comments
Trying that, for sure, so far, no joy@cl488 - Welcome!@luther There are a lot of medical professionals advising here. Where we have been getting our critical data. https://join.slack.com/t/helpfulengineering/shared_invite/zt-d9imalxu-~ZtKTdSq2bC8kTt2vcVVIw
My Hack to keep sane is to work on ANY of the 176354299 unfinished project list :)@luther I had the opportunity to spend time testing a tidal flow meter last Saturday at UCLA, interfacing with a working ventilator and asking questions with knowledgable folks, I learned alot. Don't claim to be an expert, but happy to answer questions@Dan Maloney I'm finally getting around to all those projects and kits that have been laying around for years. But since I'm working, I don't have that much time free.Anyone who wants to reach me - luther@makerlisp.com, 617 308 4698@Patrick is running a successful project for ventilator sensing over at helpfulengineering Slack channel.@Patrick, email me when you canI read all the comments and suggestions and links as well as I could.This discussion will not lead to much. It stirs things here, but has no permanent impact. What is needed are long term combined efforts of many people.
The important part is to have places for each of these concepts and ideas to be worked out completely.
Not ten million individual efforts, but a thousand combined efforts of ten thousand each.
Perhaps that is something that HackaDay.IO could try.
Unless there were a major breakdown of society, thre is no way any medical person or group will let hackers experiment with people. No matter how smart or well intentioned. But a formal group, working under strict guidelines with medical and legal and financial advisors --- might.
Even a thousand such groups - they all would have the same organizational structure, just different topics and content.
One tool, different topics. Hackaday.io software on steroids. Or just done extremely well with nothing missed.
@Patrick "luther@makerlisp.com"@luther email sent@DrG What's the project 176354299 list?I’ve been using ventilators full time since 1995. I wanted to comment that iron lungs are relics. I watched a news piece about them a few years ago. There’s maybe 4-5 users in the USA if I recall correctly. Basically those users are friends with machinists and other hackers to keep those iron lungs goingThanksYou are correct that except under circumstances in which the doctors, hospitals, and patients have literally nothing to lose, you are unlikely to see many of these proposals tried, much less adopted.@Dustin Sysko umm the (somehwat exagerated) number of projects that I will get toOK, then - we're at the top of the hour, but since there's no host to let get back to work, we can keep the chat going. Or not, whichever way works for me. I'll just put an official wrap on the chat and say thanks to everyone for participating, and tolerating something a little bit different this week.....ways to keep safe and sane during isolation?@RichardCollins That is happening, with legal entity protection for members, clinical trials, oversight, teams with split goals... good documentation... Just need to be in the right group.that is my method of staying safe and sane...Next week we'll be talking about PCB Bring-Up with Mihir Shah from InspectAR. Sorry, no link yet :-pI’m curious if there’s any efforts to make very low cost PCR machines. Anything below $1,000?@Dan Maloney Thanks for moderating in these crazy timesI second that... Today was an exercise in cat herding.@Dan Maloney thank you for bringing us togetherYes, thank you much.@cl488 - That should be very doable for a simple thermal cycler. For a fully integrated qPCR with fluorescence detectors, it's more complicated. I know there's a company selling open source qPCR machines for around $5-6k, which is super reasonable for scientific instruments@RichardCollins Don't overlook that medical devices are developed by engineers. When those engineers communicate within a larger community, like hackaday, they can share ideas. The problems aren't _solved_ by this discussion. The engineers are inspired or connected to solve the problems.
These conversations are a net good. Not worthless.
building a portable oneguys watch the film here https://hackaday.com/2020/04/07/real-engineering-behind-ventilators/ it has EXTREMELY USEFUL informationThis was actually way more fun than I thought it would be. Figured it was going to be difficult, but everyone made it a snap. Thanks all!@Daren Schwenke is correct. We've been able to get attorneys familiar with the FDA process to advise us, pro-bono. The FDA EAU process is challenging, but you need documentation. And with it, you get liability immunity.@Dan Maloney Yes, I saw that company. Can a simple thermal cycler detect covid19?@dannyvandenheuvel can you get 0.3s inhale times with your (guessing) lead screw? That, and about 5kg of force, 30W of power are the targets.I can only link the invite, which will expire I know. got a better link @Patrick ?yep, 2 spindels each moving 50 mm with 20 kg horizontal pressuremax 35 cycles a minuteIf the virus only spread as small droplets, can artificial airflow before our face makes any difference?automatic breathing system with pressure sensingI'll post what I have, but it will expire after 2000 users. This is the Slack channel that Patrick and I have been working with others on. Different teams, different goals, but the same oversight and methodology: https://join.slack.com/t/helpfulengineering/shared_invite/zt-d9imalxu-~ZtKTdSq2bC8kTt2vcVVIwBut there are teams, and there is structure and oversight, and... targets to hit.I am currently starting a project that utilizes analytic combinatorics to understand the CoronaVirus types I and II DNA and RNA.Would anybody be interested ???it follows the rithm of the patient as long he is breathing be himself , otherwiss the machine takes over and give a warningfull logging capabilities.
@macitisand those interested in face mask efficacy, take a look at a hard assessment of face shield and one that used particle detection and cough simulators - it is eye opening imo https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4734356/its based upon the bme280 chip sensor@dannyvandenheuvel Good job. I would pick one of the standards documents put out for ventilators and go down the list and see which boxes you check, and which you don't to make sure you are developing something that meets the requirements. And we are using the BMP388, well... 4 of them. :)Guys, take care and be safe. I'm out, sleepGreetings from Dracula's RealmThank you @[skaarj] Stay safe.@DrG thanks for the link.Everything has to be monitored very carefully, its a human and his lungs are very imported not to damage it.Stay safe people, I want everybody here to have a cold beer together when this mess is over. @Dan Maloney if you want to laugh hard, check my project page. You will not regret. There's some forgotten magic explained there.Also I am in the process of utilizing a paper that was written by Chinese scientists in Wuhan via the NIH. This paper describes developing a sensor for SARS related viruses. My background is in electrical engineering applied math my other co-worker is a phd in analytical and electrochemistry.@Daren Schwenke Thanks for the HelpfulEngineering link. Going to see how I can contribute there.building it is one thing , spreading it into the world at mass volume will be another challence@Dustin Sysko Welcome. It's a couple weeks in already over there, but there is still work to be done pretty much everywhere.That it can be cheap is no problem, all is build upon electronics we all use nowadaysLots of really smart people from all walks. 20k strong at last count...I'm out.. back to work. Stay safe @Everyone and if you are trying to build a ventilator and get to the sensing part.. and noticing that everything standard is out of stock all of a sudden, take a look at #VISP - Ventilator Inline Sensor PackageA ventalitor would be a good idea within emergency care units...dannyvandenheuvel is there a way to test this device first. How would you test it safely with the knowledge that it is 100 percent safe.Because usually ventalitors have filters that have a specific resolution of air particles.resolution of air particles that are allowed to come through...first we do test on some test lungs and use measurement equipment to get the results, we will be setting up a group conversation with medical people when we are finished the first build.What I mean is that there is a specific diameter of particles that cannot pass the threshhold of the ventilator filters. sorry english not my first language. -
Hack Chat Transcript, Part 2
04/08/2020 at 20:29 • 0 comments@profdc9 negative pressure on the chest? That's interesting. I looked into that, but I couldn't find enough peer reviewed medical sources to justify a prototype. If these guys are finding it works and are going to trials, that's amazing.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5131805/
Ventilator-Induced Lung Injury
As with most medical and pharmacological interventions, mechanical ventilation must be titrated within a therapeutic window, providing the required life-sustaining support while minimizing unintended toxicity. The potential for mechanical ventilation to cause harm was first described in the mid-18 th century.
Read this on PubMed Central (PMC)
higher wattage, less time to sterelise the areaThey tried that 20 years ago, now they favor PEEP (positive expiratory end pressure)@Josh Starnes , according to the feedback that you have received, what is the main target that your lamp is used to disinfect?@profdc9 - Good question, don't know. I also wonder about PEEP - how does an iron lung manage that? Or does it need to? I know that people who got polio in the 1950s are still in the 40s-era iron lungs, and that tech predates knowledge of PEEP, I think.@profdc9 If you're applying pressure externally, like in what you have linked, the chest muscles will be doing their job to prevent barotrauma. They will, however, also prevent your system from WORKING in some cases. The amount of vacuum will vary per patient.and don't forget, power diminishes by the square of the distance(by the way, very appealing design)doorknobs, dishes, handles, masks. things that are handled often@Josh Starnes - Groceries that you bring home...yes, bugs are killed in a couple seconds 1-2 cm away, at a few inches 10-15 seconds@Josh Starnes I tried to use my old UV exposer to "clean" some FFP2 masks Then I have found an article to which the International Medical Center of Beijing contributed:
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/3QYVWO4kj5qwuSHnhcM9uQ
UVC sterilization is coered in a very accessible way by the Scottish electronicist Big Clivehttps://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=big+clive+uv+light
the band I am using is reffered to as Far UVC, 154-155 nm , NON ozone creating bulbs.....HEPA filters are also good materials for masks, and they can be disinfected by boiling in water ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA )A quick look at the research does not make it obvious to me that negative pressure avoids the problem with ARDS that positive pressure does. Both might have a narrow therapeutic window.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T39BHvrHZ0
Keep in mind a lot of mask+shield designs incorporate foam materials for comfort or to conform to facial topology. The group I've been working with rejects anything with foam as it can't be sterilized OR considers it as 1-time-use disposable.I put a germicidal lamp into a cardboard box lined with aluminum foil to maximize available dose. Aluminum has a high reflectivity for UVC.However it is preferred to use a new filter, and not the filter already inside your vacuum cleaner. HEPA and UV lamps may be a good sollution for DIY filtersI payed (a lot) extra for Silicone weather stripping to avoid foam on the masks I'm printing.Or paid.sous vide is a very easy constant temperature source. and you can easily go with the dry heat or moist heat depending on which research papers you read.I think a pulmonologist needs to weigh in about the possibility about ARDS with an iron lung.@James Newton is it a solid material? Sounds good if it can be wiped down with alcohol.I suggest using incandescent lamps for heating because of their low temperature.For ongoing therapy, Canada has a grant open for monitoring devices: https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/101.nsf/eng/00078.html
.....also about masks: three weeks ago I built a respiratory filter out of an old MIG-19 aircraft pilot face mask, a hose from my old car in the cooling system, two other hoses we call "elephant nose" and two military anti-biologic warfare filtersThat grant has some stiff requirements.Sous vide cookers are intended to work in a water bath, so the PPE must be placed in a plastic bag that keeps it dry. The charged layer on PPE is destroyed by excessive moisture.Looks like it's pressing the glasses into his face. Ouch!yes definitely; use the sous vide cooker for your mask just like you would for foodAnd bad seal too, I'd thinkRiley.august, can you link me to a summary of your work on PPE ?One thing that I have received the feedback to be useful for home care is pulse oximeter. It is used as a control for people being treated at home.Whenever the oxigen level drops below a certain threshold, that triggers the hospitalization
if you want moist heat (some research papers with SARS-CoV-1 suggest it's better) you can spray a bit of water in the bag with the maskFYI, I'll pull a transcript when we're done so all the links are preservedit's my face.... and it's not pressing the glasses. Works fine. Cops always stop me for sharing the design.But as long as people can be mantained at home, the pressure to healthcare system is lowerThe Canadian grant solicitation is crazy, but not out-of-bounds crazy. SpO2 and pulse oximeters are already pretty cheap. Adding Wifi to it couldn't be that hard (ESP8266/ESP32). Adding a pressure cuff might blow the budget though, because a pump would be needed.This is a good sollution for Eastern Europe hackers who have access to old Soviet Union gear since the post-war occupation...@borelli.g92 - Good point. THey're so cheap now that every home should have one in their med kit.@[skaarj] - and it's an awesome look for around town ;-)154-155 nm is vacuum UV, the air absorbs it. UVC 254 nm is generated by mercury vapor and causes thymine dimerization which prevents virus replication.@Dan Maloney thanks, I have received that feedback from some friends who are donating a small sum to hospitals in my area (northern Italy)You can get breakout modules for some MAxim part, I think, to implement a pulse oximeter for a few pounds. By the time you added your own OLED you might as well buy a complete unit.But you could put the mondul online. Or nixies :)
@Dan Maloney ...two months ago if I wear that around town, people would call the nearest mental asylum to come and catch me. Now they want to take pictures of me.tinfoil hats seem so in vogue now.@[skaarj] - Everything changed so fast, right?@profdc9 sorry I meant 254-255, not feeling great today, it was a typothat's ok, this is getting on everyone's nerves after awhileWell... 'preppers' were always regarded as weird people. Now things changed...far UVC (207–222 nm) is interesting as it can kill airborne bacteria and viruses, but doesn't harm our skin and eyesTell me about it...I had a bunch of N95 masks stockpiled. I gave it to the local hospital.@skot citation needed.https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-21058-w
SCIENTIFIC REPORTS
DAVID WELCHFar-UVC light: A new tool to control the spread of airborne-mediated microbial diseases
Airborne-mediated microbial diseases such as influenza and tuberculosis represent major public health challenges. A direct approach to prevent airborne transmission is inactivation of airborne pathogens, and the airborne antimicrobial potential of UVC ultraviolet light has long been established; however, its widespread use in public settings is limited because conventional UVC light sources are both carcinogenic and cataractogenic.
Read this on Scientific Reports
An interesting question: do high-voltage air purifiers have any benefit in cleaning air from organic particles such as 'covid'?Anyways. I know a pulmonologist. Perhaps I can get him to answer a few questions about iron lungs. As you might guess though, they have their attention spread pretty thin.it probably won't work with SARS-CoV-2 as it's usually transmitted in droplets@profdc9 Is baseline pressure above ambient required to measure systolic and diastolic BP? I'm not aware of anything other than the cuff, but wondering if anyone's heard of anything in that regard.I think the issue is that with the cuff, you need to inflate it, which needs a motor capable of a certain amount of pressure.I would not suppose I could make a pressure cuff cheaper than the one I Could buy at the pharmacy.@Dustin Sysko There are such non-cuff devices but they are undergoing validation e.g. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4873623/ There are also pulse oximetry device that experimentally are used to derive measures of BPBuilding a true ventilator with sensors to get pressure,temp and hydro. automatic breath systemFor example, I see some blood pressure cuffs for 35 USD on amazon. They could be communicated with my a ESP32 with bluetooth.e.g., https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1717578/re. UV - https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200327-can-you-kill-coronavirus-with-uv-light“You would literally be frying people,” says Dan Arnold, laughing in disbelief.So for example, about 45 USD for pulse oximeter + 35 USD for blood pressure cuff with bluetooth + ESP32 (6 to 10 USD), provides a wireless solution for monitoring a patient. Cheap by an medical device standard but still over the budget of the Canadian solicitation.@DrG That's super interesting. Thanks.Cheapest sphygmomanometer I found was ~$19 CADhttps://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/LCD-Display-Blood-Pressure-Monitor-Wrist-Pulse-Meter-Automatic-Digital-Pulsometer-Sphygmomanometer-Family-Diagnostic-tool/PRD6XBNIAMDGGW7
If these have TTL serial it is plausible they could be integrated into a wireless device.My question is how important cost is at this time. Even if each unit costs $100 per patient, compared to the cost of patient treatment, its nothing.I think it's important to remember that with all the things we're talking about here that are patient-directed, like diagnostics and therapeutics, we have to be really careful. Ideas are one thing, but building some of this stuff could be really dangerous. We all should proceed with caution.This is true, but monitoring a patient has less risk than therapeutics.Absolutely, but you still want to make sure you're getting the right numbers, so the correct decisions can be made.@Dan Maloney AGREED and morover building any kind of medical advice without consultation with medical professionsals is also dangerous. The strength of great EE minds (as with all other fields) is to collaborate so that the sum SME is great.Dan is right, of course, but being an embedded sensor / logging guy, I would love to try sensing the ntake and helping after that.@DrG - Well put! We're better when we team up with those that can cover our weak spots. The lone wolf inventor model doesn't work for things like this.We are talking about interventions that, in order to have any impact on patient health, must be deployed quickly and use available resources. The unquantifiable risk of inaction is balanced against the known consequences of deleterious action. If we simply value the knowable above the unknowable, then we are paralyzed into inaction.@profdc9 @Dan Maloney I agree with what you're saying. A small team can bring up and answer more questions than an individual. I do remote sensing prototyping, but I'm no medical professional!@James Newton Come on over to #VISP - Ventilator Inline Sensor Packageif we can get RTs and physicians to join these chats that wuld be great@profdc9 yes, but first do no harm. Seeking consultation with medical professionals is not difficult. You design a UV sterilizer - do you not want to know how UV light MIGHT harm? Of course you do. Medical people WANT help. They want all the help that they can get.The BC solicitation justifies their low unit cost by saying it would be related to making it available in quantity to the widest range of medical facilities. I'm assuming the budget for some remote areas is low.Trying to find medical advisors but it has been slow goingany advice is appreciatedon how to connectHi, I am ventilator dependent so all these topics interest me.So, maybe in the last few minutes we can swivel a bit: how about hacks that everyone is using to keep sane and safe in isolation?@luther Make contact with your local university - med school, public health school and so on. Many will be happy to talk with you and discuss challenges and so forth. You don't have to start with talking to the surgeon.@luther Here in BC the medical guys seem to like to work with someone from the engineering community as a translator/information broker.Unfortunately there's no authority and scant legal precedent to guide what is ethical, legal, and moral behavior in such a circumstance. I am fairly sure, however, that after the pandemic is over, the legal repercussions will be extreme and could likely dissuade further interventions. There is no risk in not doing anything. The only exception to this are the doctors who are more or less required to risk their health to save patients. The ones that object to the situation of not being sufficiently protected find themselves suspended or terminated.Hack Chat Transcript, Part 1 04/08/2020 at 20:28 • 0 comments
OK, welcome everyone. Today's Hack Chat is a bit different, since we have no host per se. I'll be moderating, though - I'm Dan Maloney, staff writer at Hackaday.com and community engineer at Hackaday.io, BTW
Hint: for whoever is working for medical hacks: go check in with the Army and ask them to allow you access to their forgotten warehousesThank you, DanThank you Dan. Moderate away. :)I think what we can accomplish today is to just get some ideas out there about how we can hack this situation, with the obvious aim of making things betterWe've seen tons of hacks that mostly come down to two broad buckets: personal protective gear for healthcare pros/first responders, and DIY ventilatorshow about COVID-19 detection?Does anyone have recommendations for mass airflow sensors for ventilators. Like a link to what i can buy?https://hackaday.io/project/6180-dna-lamp-diagnostic-device
DNA-LAMP Diagnostic Device
Billions of people have no way to access modern medicine, and millions die there each year from communicable diseases. A baby girl born in Sub-Saharan Africa faces a 22 per cent risk of death before age 15.
Links inline to keep them from expanding.https://hackaday.io/project/170622-visp-ventilator-inline-sensor-package
https://hackaday.io/project/170507-cosv-cam-open-source-ventilator
Honestly, the DIY ventilators scare the crap out of me - read Bob Baddely's article and watch Real Engineering's latest video on why they're such a bad idea and might do more harm than good.that should be able to detect COVID-19 RNA in about 10 minsI've been making fabric face masks withe a bunch of friends and some local businesses, we've donated ~200 to local hospitals and sheltershttps://hackaday.com/2020/03/25/ventilators-101-what-they-do-and-how-they-work/
Ventilators 101: What They Do And How They Work
Treating the most serious cases of COVID-19 calls for the use of ventilators. We've all heard this, and also that there is a shortage of these devices. But there is not one single type of ventilator, and that type of machine is not the only option when it comes to assisted breathing being used in treatment.
But then I got on the DIY ventilator train, toohttps://hackaday.com/2020/04/07/real-engineering-behind-ventilators/
Real Engineering Behind Ventilators
Experts on cognition tell us that most people think they know more than they really do. One particular indicator for that is if someone is an expert in one field and they feel like all other fields relate to theirs (everything boils down to math or chemistry or physics, for example).
If you need a ventilator you also need a team of expert medical staff .. that's surely yhr bottleneck......all of these projects are based on 3D printed parts, which have tiny holes inside... and this is a perfect environment for "colonies of microscopic animals" to hidethat's why our Army dumped this ideaI modeled existing pneumatic ventilators from Penlon and PneupacJoshua look at the sensors used in cars in engine management systemsSo maybe can we shy away from those two categories and talk more about other areas that hackers can make a difference in? Testing is a great place to start; maybe disinfection too?I think it is a little unfair to suggest that most people believe they know more than they do. It's more solutions borne out of desperation than anything else. Under normal circumstances almost everyone thinking of making a ventilator wouldn't even consider it.@Haddington Dynamics Got one of our Dexter robot to tend a laser cutter, removing the finished face shield, advancing the roll of film, then pushing the buttons on the PC and cutter to slice the next one. Video here:https://drive.google.com/file/d/12EFcOq_v_aMKLEtCa4Xkb5v0TVQXeFGv/view
I am certainly looking for medical advisors and collaborators, reaching out everywhere I know howCar sensors are way to high of pressure...Yes what can we do with uv-c lights?
For anyone who doesn't know, Dexters are open source and we won the Hackaday prize in 2018. There is also a really cool hack to make a vacuum pickup without a vacuum source.One thing struck me while watching the Real Engineering video and Rohin's great explanation of barotrauma: why not revive the "iron lung" method of negative pressure ventilation?Hello allI am joining the COvid chatHi @Josh Starnes - you're in the right place!Joshua, no they are on an intake manifold, known as MAF (mass airflow sensor)I have two documents I have written on disinfecting PPE: one on UV, the other using dry heat. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NDP7rlqqLaXC3IBCSmcZSbiw1HuZUOUf https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wF4yYgSE1n0Jqewb8JdwosTRhx0X89wF . I do not pretend these are ideal solutions, but there are likely to be many instances where sufficient PPE is unavailable as well as the means to disinfect and reuse it.Oops... apparently I wasn't supposed to share that video yet. LOL. Oh well. Better resolution version coming soon.That's intersting, Dan. I thought of those halls fill of people on iron lings when the first fild hospitals were set up in London, becuase the layiut was the same. Do iron lungs to the same job as what we know as ventilators?An important part of a mitigation plan is to trace infections. We know that there are asymptomatic infectors as well as incubation time infectors. When an infection is discovered, the mitigation plan includes tracing all of the contacts. Your Phone GPS is an obvious candidate and many apps exist. Can we easily find apps to PRIVATELY provide route tracing and those even capable of "networking" individual logs, like within a family, to identify contacts? Are there any recommendations? Not very provocative, but a useful tool - no?...might be.... for people not obsessed by their privacy, or for people in country side (such as world war 2 survivers) who have no idea how to use a phonegoogle is doing this analysis:@[skaarj] You can use an acetone vapor bath to seal the surfacesWhat Google data says about Canadian vs. U.S. social distancing efforts - Macleans.ca
Philippe J. Fournier: In reducing travel, Canada's most populous provinces rank well. Trump-backing U.S. states are at the bottom. Last Friday, L'actualité magazine political bureau chief Alec Castonguay published an analysis of Google data released a few days ago on the mobility changes of people around the world due to the spread of the coronavirus.
@christian - yes, but in the opposite way. Modern ventilators use positive pressure to force air into the lungs, eventually causing trauma in the alevoli. Iron lungs use a vacuum chamber around the patient's thorax to pull air into the lungs, more like how the diaphragm and intercostal muscles do naturally by expanding the chest cavity@Steven.Carr thank youPeople have survived decades in an iron lung. Ventilators are much more time limited.Iron lungs are not very portableYes, I have seen the google activity maps - how does that work on the individual level? https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/Why are iron lungs no longer used?So I have been super busy, I have been working 3d printing parts for products for people to use to help protect themselves1. Firefly UVC handheld lamp , 2. Firefly mini UVC that is about the size of a toothbrush holder, 3. desk/ room area rapid air sterilizer
In China you have a QR code. The government tacks where you go and who you have been in contact with. Your green QR code will turn yellow or red if you have been near someone who was infected or tested positive. Probably can't work here.@luther - True, but their development basically stopped in the 1950s after the polio vaccine came along. I wonder if a compact version could be built with modern materials. perhaps even a wearable iron lung, like a wetsuit vest that expands by itself.Another key point is letting the patient start breathing on his/her own, when he/she does decide to take a breath voluntarily, and ventilators that transition well here can help wean people off them@Joshua Young Agreed. Let's assume that you are a family of five and one of you becomes symptomatic, how do you uncover the contacts?To make an iron lung, a cavity would be constructed around the patient to apply negative pressure.http://blog.modernmechanix.com/diy-iron-lung/
DIY Iron Lung - Popular Mechanics (Jan, 1952)
Could a life have been saved in your community if a mechanical respirator had been at hand for immediate use? Often just a matter of minutes means the difference between life or death for a little child stricken with polio, or a victim of drowning or a paralyzing accident.
Wow@DrG uncover that information with a military state or martial law...From what information I gathered, in the advanced stage of COVID-19 the lungs are filling with something like a foam. It is an allergic reaction of the immune system. Some hoses are required to suck that and free the respiratory paths - so this requires some invasive methods. Iron lung is unable to do thatI am sorry I do not know the proper English medical terms, but I think you get the idea.@Steven.Carr - Awesome find! People forget how terrifying polio was. Every summer like clockwork, some kid went to bed fine and woke up paralyzed.but might be a better first assisted breathing if availableiron lungtake me to your liter@[skaarj] - Pretty sure you can still suction a patient who's in an iron lung. But to be clear, I'm not advocating DIY iron lungs as a substitute for ventilators. Just saying I find the science behind both fascinating.Also, a great source of information is sciencedirect.com -> at the middle of March there were some articles stating that infected patients respond to HIV treatment... then those articles vanished. But it is known for COVID19 to mess with both the immune and respiratory systems. Is this virus some kind of half-breed between SARS and HIV?ok sorry, I thought it would group those togetherHey guys. I'm from Robots Everywhere, we've been mostly focused on PPE and filtered breathing equipment since late February. If you'd like any insights on the designs we've shared with the community I'll try to be around in the chat.@Josh Starnes - what are those? Disinfection lights?@Dan Maloney I am only sharing what I know. Please do not be offended due to my poor English medical terms...I saw an article that posited a hybrid between two Corona virusesYes Dan , a design you can print yourself and I have been making them like mad for others as wellhad characteristics of two previously known viruses@[skaarj] - No offense taken. We're all doing our best!@Josh Starnes - So UV light? What's the light source?@luther Let's focus on what we know and can deal with. I'm not going to get into the origins of COVID19 here, but I will just sum it up with "the WHO knows exactly where it came from".If we get some kind of crazy retroviral mutation, that's a nightmare scenario that frankly, having breathing equipment and PPE ready to go is the best thing we can do to prevent.LB1000 or similar E17 thread Germicidal Mercury Vapor lamp 3 wattsFirst stop the bleedingmetaphoricallyhttps://newatlas.com/medical/british-engineers-modern-iron-lung-covid-19-ventilator-alternative/ whathttps://www.theengineer.co.uk/exovent-covid-19-ventilator/
exovent iron lung concept offers alternative to Covid-19 ventilators
The iron lung has been reimagined by a multidisciplinary team to potentially give the NHS an alternative model of ventilator to treat Covid-19 patients. Dubbed exovent, the Negative Pressure Ventilator (NPV) is said to be non-invasive, so patients won't need to have their windpipes intubated.
.....does any UV-eraser for EPROM memory work for disinfection?@luther - In EMT school, it was ABC - airway, breathing, and circulation ;-)Yes, good mnemonic@Josh Starnes - Does 3 W give enough UV-C flux to kill the bugs?An iron lung might be a situation where a simple air bladder and cam system could provide sufficient periodic negative pressure.Has anyone studied barotrauma with an iron lung?wattage doesn't matter, it only changes how long you need to light up the area
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Brainstorming COVID-19 Hack Chat
Hackers thinking through potential solutions
