Dan MaloneyLooking forward to this Hack Chat! Super interesting work
Hi all -- Hack CHat coming up in 30 minutes:
https://hackaday.io/event/185521-low-cost-nanopositioning-hack-chat
Low-Cost Nanopositioning Hack Chat
En-Te Hwu will host the Hack Chat on Wednesday, June 15 at noon Pacific. Time zones got you down? Try our handy time zone converter. It may sound like a provocative statement to make, but technology has been on a downward trend for a long time.
Hi Dan!
Can't want to find out how y'all are getting nanoscale positioning.
And what you mean by nanoscale positioning.
'cause a nano is 10^-9 meters.
That's crazy small
Hey Mark -- think positioning stages for things like electron microscopy
Oh sweet!
Or microinjection into cell nuclei
Patch-clamp rigs?
Matt Berregren of Autodesk will definitely be interested.
I'd say so -- being able to maneuver a micropipette over a single, specific nuclear pore complex or proton pump would be pretty cool
I wonder if he's got anything for rotory positioning
Good question Jabari....
I suspect it would depend on your range of motion.
true
A stewart-platform might work -- give you the precision, but limited angular range of motion.
Yo! I am Edwin, this is very interesting format of discussion :D
Imagine a Stewart or a delta bot made with the modified linear slides shown in the event page pix
https://hackaday.io/event/185521-low-cost-nanopositioning-hack-chat
Low-Cost Nanopositioning Hack Chat
En-Te Hwu will host the Hack Chat on Wednesday, June 15 at noon Pacific. Time zones got you down? Try our handy time zone converter. It may sound like a provocative statement to make, but technology has been on a downward trend for a long time.
I have a rotary (millions steps per resolution) design..
Hey there Edwin! Welcome to the Chat -- we'll kick things off in just a minute
Yeah...I can see ;)
Nice discussion!
BTW -- Dan -- I have to leave early, not leaving due to content or presenter :)
But feel free to chat while we wait
Hi Edwin!
Thanks for the heads up -- work is work, amiright?
Hi all!
Sadly, this is Dentist is dentist.
blargh...blargh I say!
Edwin -- I'm interested in construction, precision, accuracy, backlash compensation, and force.
Happy teeth are important oo
*too
@Mark J Hughes this is a good question.....
It's nice to meet everyone. I am Jim Brenner, a professor from Florida Tech writing a textbook on making. I had several students working on a nanopositioning system two to three years ago. I like Dr. Hwu's design better.
There are many different nanopositioners for different applications, heavy load, closed-loop, ultra high vacuum...rotational also
@Edwin Hwu have you published that rotary unit yet?
@Prof. Jim Brenner that's great!
I am too busy for Health Tech research...It would be great if guys here can help me for making, characterization and publication
Hello all, let's get things going! I'm Dan, and Dusan and I will be modding today as we welcome Edwin Hwu to the Hack Chat. Dr. Hwu (I had to!) is doing some fantastic work on making nanopositioning devices from common DIY parts and processes.
Welcome to the chat, Edwin! Can you tell us what got you interested in this field?
Maybe I can collaborate also with @Prof. Jim Brenner also, I have many design collecting dust...
@Edwin Hwu connect with Matt Berregren (Autodesk) -- he's making his own patch-clamp rig (or at least he was the last time I saw him pre-covid)
Hello and welcome everyone!
Dear all, I am originally from Taiwan and I have a Mechanical Engineering background. I worked in a fundamental research institute under Taiwanese President office. now I am doing my research in Denmark on Health technology.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattberggren/
I am interested everything that moving haha!
But just a little ;)
Should I open a Zoom room so that we can see each other?
Moving in very small increments it seems xD
Since I enter the Taiwanese institute, that's when Nanotechnology boom...
cool! Should I look up what nanopositioning is first?
nanopositioning.....is to move your sample or tip in nanoscale....
under scanning probe microscopy or SEM
@Prof. Jim Brenner -- we try to keep this just a text chat, but feel free to paste images, links, etc into the chat window
Oh! that sounds useful.
Yeah....maybe I can chat with @Prof. Jim Brenner on Zoom another day ;)
considering this DIY systen it as a plan B for an LBIC myself, if the steppers fail my requirements
LBIC: laser beam induced (photo)current in solar cells
BTW, I used Blu-ray optics for nano LBIC too ;)
LBIC?
Sub-micrometre μ-LBIC Characterisation of Silicon Solar Cells Based on a Blue Laser Pick-up Unit
The for the tip Edwin, I will look into Blu-ray as well, I think nanoposition might be overkill
WELCOME TO DTU RESEARCH DATABASE
Sub-micrometre μ-LBIC Characterisation of Silicon Solar Cells Based on a Blue Laser Pick-up Unit
competitive and versatile optoelectronic characterisation system. A blue laser pick-up unit (LPU) is used here to achieve a highly focused laser beam with a full width half maximum as small as 250 nm on the cell's surface. A photocurrent map is then generated with precise sample movement using a piezo stage and a pico-ammeter.
Read this on Welcome to DTU Research Database
I did use nanopositioner for this setup haha...
I will read that paper first thing in the morning
Great!
You showed in the paper your open source controller and a commercial controller. How did the results differ in your tests using the open source version?
Besides Prof. Brenner, who would like to make closed loop nanopositioner? I would like to try if we can "crowdsource building" this
The commercial controller has nice stepping and scanning functions....the open source controller can do only stepping :p
I'm interested -- but time constrained.
<---- count me in
Could perhaps help with the control / electronics. Did piezo's for a resonant fluid actuator and some other designs
I would also love to see a closed loop version.
Who doesn't want a closed-loop nanopositioner??
@John oh...yeah!
You can ask Dan to give you my email -- I can help you with the PCB design & fabrication.
I might be able to do more than that if I tie it in with a sponsor company.
I can feel Germany companies like Smaract and Attocube are sweating....XD
I'd love to know what find of sensor could be used to close such a physically small loop
If I end up building one for the LBIC I would also be interested in closed loop XD
let me find the link for closed loop sensor I sue
Is there an affordable nm resolution encoder? That seems diffiult to DIY
The vision I had for this is to use a set of lasers in X, Y, and Z to correct for registry issues to ensure that everything is aligned.
ah nevermind :)
https://www.celeramotion.com/microe/products/linear-encoders/
@polyfractal Probably not an optical one. But there are magnetic field sensors -- if they have sufficient resolution they might work.
@Mark J Hughes - sent him you contact info
Thanks @Dan Maloney
Those little guys sized like your fingernail can get you 1nm accuracy...
How do you deal with the effects of imperfections on the surfaces of the linear slides in your measurements?
woah
Magnetic sensor can get somewhat 50nm
Capacitance?
So we're now at the "If it can exist, it probably does, and someone has commercialized it" point, are we?
Yes Dan -- yes we are.
And yet we DIY anyway
the imperfection is fine...because no surface is perfect....the mm scale contact area can absorb the imperfection like roughness
What about using a beam splitter on a violet laser to create a Michelson interferometer? Wouldn't that give ~10uM resolution?
What does one of those commercial position sensors run?
@Edwin Hwu with magnetic sensors and 50nm you refer to Hall sensors, right? Do you expect any interference with the magnets used for the motion?
When I was in PTB (German metrology institute) we use interferometer to get 10 pm resolution control ;)
As I know, the magnets did not interfer the encoder....since the magnet is always there.
How much do the encoders cost?
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