Lutetium-
Hack Chat Transcript, Part 4
06/15/2022 at 21:32 • 0 comments![]()
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I made this 100x100 mm nanopositioner is also for high resolution cell monitoring![]()
with auto focusing function![]()
what is the minimal repeatable positional accuracy you get with that?![]()
Very nice on the nanopositioner for high resolution cell monitoring! Are you familiar with the LabSmith version of that?![]()
I didn't use interferometer to compare on this system...but I have other in another system.... let me find it![]()
LabSmith? no....sorry :)![]()
@Edwin Hwu :-) I've been wondering over the years if there are parts available in the HD and disc players to make a maybe Michelson or other interferometer design based non-destructive sample NIR-Vis-UV spectrometer. Also, regarding previous linear CCD... more for destructive sample LIBS work.![]()
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This is the comparsion between MicroE encoder and interferometer![]()
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@James Finch I need to study the system you mentioned ;)![]()
Hi! I'm with quub, a pico-sat startup. Scrolling through the past messages, looks like these techniques will be perfect for some of our ideas 😎![]()
@Nathaniel@quub.space do you have website? :)![]()
cool! pico satellite...![]()
LabSmith is a company started several years ago by Kirsten Pace, a former grad student of John Wikswo and Dave Cliffel at Vanderbilt. I was one of the beta testers on their microfluidics education kit. Your microscope looks pretty comparable to theirs. They sell it for around $8000. I think yours is more precise.![]()
I am not sure if the nanopositioner will work in the space...but I guess yes since nikel and iron are different metal ;p![]()
Pico-sat. I am familiar with nanosatellites, but pico!![]()
I think the miniaturized rotary piezo motor can help also ;)![]()
@Edwin Hwu yep! https://www.quub.space/![]()
@Edwin Hwu The last work I did before needing the spy cameras and other remote sensing devices..., :-/ ..., was regarding chemometrics, NIR spectroscopy, FTIR microscopy and hyperspectral imaging. Somewhat related to my and other articles in this addition where I did publish while at Perrigo. https://www.americanlaboratory.com/1413-Issues/37116-October-2008/ I have to go. Thank you for sharing your work! So much wasted resources that can be put to great use! Very thankful you and everyone who is, are sharing your work.
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Reminds me that "SpaceBornUnited" conted me to use cell culture disc contain human embryo in to earth orbit![]()
Here's a prototype 2x 3u deployer module we did last week: https://twitter.com/quubspaceThese things are TINY
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@james welcome :)![]()
https://twitter.com/quubspace/status/1530220321382473729/photo/1 ** :)![]()
cool! :D![]()
Finding out about the microE encoder by itself made today worth it. We need to collaborate more often. It was a pleasure meeting you @Edwin Hwu!![]()
@Prof. Jim Brenner same here! :D![]()
Actually i am also into micro/nanoscale 3D printing![]()
Cool! nano printing is going to be a major revolution.![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FxJJHBqJ0U
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Using nanopositioner + Blu-ray optics...![]()
Is atto3D actually available?![]()
not yet...they are prestartup...recently we are applying for 1.5M DKK funding ...![]()
and what was the resolution![]()
Hopefully this and its links will help you with your teaching: https://www.engineeringunleashed.com/card/2167. I have a lot more, but that is a good gateway.![]()
The resolution is 6xx nm in XY, micron in Z...hah![]()
That was done with the xbox head right?![]()
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so I can access if I register right? :)![]()
That resolution is probably good enough for bioprinting. 30 microns is not really good enough, but one micron probably is.![]()
Just register with KEEN.![]()
okok! Thanks!![]()
Atto3D is mainly for Danish hearing aid industry....they found out the commercial system has 30+um resolution...not enough for small parts![]()
Sorry, engineeringunleashed.com is the web site for the Kern Entrepreneurial Engineering Network (KEEN). I am one of their community catalysts and am largely in charge of their making initiative.![]()
KEEN is basically the funding for my teaching initiative, including the maker education textbook.![]()
@Prof. Jim Brenner thanks a lot :D![]()
@Prof. Jim Brenner so you have many students interested in your course, cool! then we have manpower ;p![]()
Thank you! I only have 10 students in my making class in the summer because it is summer. I teach around 40 in my materials characterization lab, 60 in my nanotech lecture, and usually around 60 in my Basics of Making class. I offer these classes on a 2-year rotation. https://fit.instructure.com/courses/265730/files - Go to Basics of Making near the top, and then all of the folders that start with M or N are for the other courses.![]()
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haha...I will try another name![]()
Try "Other" for affiliation with regard to KEEN.![]()
okok!![]()
Other than the 7 axis unit have you looked at any other projects in nano assembly?![]()
Did "Other" actually work? If not, e-mail either Becky Benishek (bbenishek@engineeringunleashed.com) or Michael Johnson (mjohnson@engineeringunleashed.com), and we'll get you in there. What you have done with spinning your inventions off as a small business is exactly what this site is interested in.![]()
@placethesundontshine yep, I have 18 axes 6 probes probing station![]()
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I'm in!![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgcChFSLu80
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It looks like you are in to KEEN.![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFEBZuy0R-w
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I like engineering....not basic science....it's boring to see atoms jumping ;p![]()
very interesting is that probing or are you actually manipulating devices with that unit?![]()
@Edwin Hwu thanks for your input. I'm looking forward to see the rotary actuator being published/open-source!!![]()
I have to leave![]()
Welcome! :)![]()
@placethesundontshine that's a system planning for TSMC ;p![]()
hmmmm my interest is in photonics assembly but have much smaller pockets than TSMC![]()
haha....since I open source them in the paper...you can build one at low cost![]()
Approximately how much did it cost to make the cell culture bioreactor with the microscopy (time and Euros)?![]()
I may teach design and build cours in DTU next year....the KEEN could be very helpful :D![]()
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109 Euro ;p![]()
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still writing....I am using nanopositioner template![]()
@Prof. Jim Brenner let's keep in contact! I need to run!![]()
Those micromanipulators are really cool!![]()
Buy everyone! :)![]()
Thanks @Edwin Hwu![]()
https://engineeringunleashed.com/card/1791 for The Design Process. I am editing my Canvas course site that I sent earlier to include more detail on how to guide the design projects. Teaching the skills and the mindset are not all that difficult for a maker, but managing the projects is a challenge!![]()
I enjoyed meeting you @Edwin Hwu![]()
you can find me on hackaday as well :)![]()
Hi Edwin - Any chance to see your stuff in action out at DTU?
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Hack Chat Transcript, Part 3
06/15/2022 at 21:29 • 0 comments![]()
You mentioned https://www.celeramotion.com/microe/products/linear-encoders/. Which ones are you using the Nano / Optiras?![]()
@Prof. Jim Brenner - We had Zach Tong on the Hack Chat not too long ago, he's interested in DIY AFM![]()
@mh-nexus If you click and hold the scroll bar on the right you can drag it up![]()
https://hackaday.io/event/179336-microscopy-hack-chat
Microscopy Hack Chat
Zachary Tong will host the Hack Chat on Wednesday, June 23 at noon Pacific. Time zones got you down? Try our handy time zone converter. There was a time when electronics was very much a hobby that existed in the macroscopic world.
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I saw that you referenced a company selling your AFM's. Only $3 K! At that price, I think I'll buy one as a backup. I assume you get a royalty.![]()
Might want to check that out, and his YT channel is pretty cool too![]()
https://www.stromlinet-nano.org/
Stromlinet Nano - Nanoscience Made Easy
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@Dan Maloney thanks! ;p![]()
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@Prof. Jim Brenner yes, I get 10% my institute get 90% XDDDDD![]()
I went to the site, but I hadn't gotten to the pricing yet. Would you like the Stromlinet Nano to be featured in my textbook?![]()
I think you can ask them....also your text book can cite the Nature nanotechnology article![]()
https://www.nature.com/articles/nnano.2015.95
Creativity unleashed - Nature Nanotechnology
Hands-on challenges such as building a low-cost atomic force microscope for schools can teach more than standard lessons, says François Grey. When I arrived as a visiting professor at Tsinghua University in 2008, one of my first tasks was to set up an international summer school that would expose foreign students to the many exciting advances being made in China in the field of nanotechnology, and to encourage them to collaborate with their Chinese counterparts on practical projects.
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@Edwin Hwu Maybe someone asked the question already but I couldnt find a mention of this in the chat. What medical applications do you see, since the devices will be too bulky to work inside the human body.![]()
(Hiya, I'm Breaking Taps :) ) That's cool you're the tech behind the stromlinet system! Didn't realize they had licensed that from you
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@mh-nexus I think electrode implant for brain machine interface can be a good application for nanopositioner ;)![]()
@polyfractal did you have one? ;p![]()
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I don't, but I looked at them for a whlie when thinking about AFM systems (either commercially or DIY)![]()
I made enough money off of my companies that I don't need to beg for $ any more. I will definitely ask about the nature nanotech article and the Stromlinet Nano site. I have been in charge of a nanotech minor since 2004. We have been using the Nanosurfs, originally available via Nanoscience Instruments. You may want to browse some of the folders at https://fit.instructure.com/courses/265730/files for training videos.![]()
This AFM use piezo buzzers for high resolution scanning, super low cost ;3![]()
@polyfractal Nice YouTube channel, look forward to checking out your content later tonight![]()
😊 thanks!![]()
https://www.youtube.com/c/EdwinHwuHacks4Science/videos
Edwin Hwu
Associate Professor at IDUN Research Group. Hardware hacking as an unorthodox way of research. Co-Founder of BluSense Diagnostics.
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This is my channel ;p![]()
Is the Espresso AFM a different design?![]()
Thanks @Dan Maloney. I have used Hackaday's site, but this is the first time I had time for chats.![]()
do you think you will be able to publish/open-source the rotary dseign any time soon? That looks super intersting to me...![]()
Good stuff on your Hackaday.io page, too:![]()
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would it be possible to use the self mixing of a laser diode for low cost feedback for a nano or submicron positioner? I imagine at least the drifting of the frequency will be an issue? Seems that it could be a very low cost solution.![]()
Espresso AFM use the same mechanism like DIY AFM...only the tip alignment is done by rotary piezo motor ;p![]()
@Edwin Hwu +1 Subscribers ;)![]()
Hi sorry for joining late :(How much does simulation play a role or would make sense in your opinion? Had some nice results with open source software (openCFS https://www.opencfs.org/ ).
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@Merijn Otterman that's possible...we can use interal photodiode of laser diode to read interference signal![]()
@lageos thanks! I am not sure...maybe stick slip simulation? :)![]()
@Hash thanks! :D![]()
kinda related question, how much variability is there between different piezo chips? Not a problem if/when an encoder is added, but running open loop do they have fairly similar step size?![]()
@Edwin Hwu Are you aware of something regarding nanorobotics or microrobotics combined with imaging that could be doable outside of a highly specialized uni lab?![]()
@polyfractal the forward and backward positioning has slightly difference...because piezo expansion and contraction have different speed...![]()
@mh-nexus I think microrobits has higher chance....because nano one needs SEM or other microscopy to see :)![]()
Hm interesting. I wonder if it could be preloaded slightly in one direction to counteract that? Might be too hard given the size of motion here. Encoder would definitely be easier :)![]()
@polyfractal smart! Acutally I did put spring preload...but I didn't mention in the paper because I would like to KISS (Keep it simple and stupid) :D![]()
Welp, that's our hour! It was a fast one -- lots of great discussion. I want to thank Edwin for stopping by today, I really enjoyed this Chat. And thanks to all of you out there for the great questions and all the discussion. I think we might have got some good collaborations started today!![]()
ahhh, makes sense!![]()
Yes, @Merijn Otterman and @Edwin Hwu. You can use the internal photodiode of laser diode to read the interference signal. To make sure I am lined up in X and Y, when I do nanopositioning, I raise my stage up one step in Z, then to make sure that I am dead set on my X and Y origins, I shine lasers at a bullseye on the other sides of the stage and then use the piezoelectric motors to correct for any X-Y positioning errors. Long term, the goal of this is to put together a nanoprecise bioprinter, and the goal is to make sure that the registry is perfect.![]()
@Edwin Hwu Awesome, I got hear in time! You have the DIY AFM on Instructable and two projects on hackaday.io. Any plans for more?![]()
@Edwin Hwu Regarding stick slip: First yes that would be nice but tricky, secondly did you measure repeatability on the steps on your actuator design? What about wear on the (nickel?) plating on the magnet.![]()
Here's hoping the discussion continues. Feel free to use Hackaday.io to keep things going![]()
I'll wait a bit before I pull a transcript -- looks like there's still some chatting to do ;-)![]()
The stick slip is an issue @lageos. This is why I use the laser interferometry and the piezoelectric motors as a correction. At each new level in Z, you just tell the G code to do an X-Y calibration.![]()
@Edwin Hwu Any thoughts on making a spectrometer using COTS parts that's cost effective?![]()
@James Finch I can try to put hacked Drone + Spy camer+Qi power for lab on a disc system if I have time ;)![]()
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHWr2xoppQ
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@Edwin Hwu I've wondering about interferometry based maybe somehow with HD actuator.![]()
@James Finch I guess low cost spy camera can get you wireless spectrum meter ;p![]()
Is there a link to the poster mentioned in the video?![]()
I can put the poster here ;)![]()
For a really low cost spectrometer, try the one from Gaudi Labs. https://gaudishop.ch/ I use his spectrometer and his PocketPCR.![]()
Gotta run, thanks for answering questions @Edwin Hwu! And thanks for the paper, very cool work. I'll give you a ping on twitter once I have some working prototypes of the stage, definitely interested in adding some of those encoders for closed-loop positioning :)![]()
MicroTAS2020_Poster Edwin M1-180.e.pdf
8 MB
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Bye Zach! Thanks for stopping by!![]()
@polyfractal sure :)![]()
@Prof. Jim Brenner Thanks fo![]()
Thanks for the poster!![]()
... for clarification.![]()
Ah yep could use that cell culture monitoring unit for a side project we have with one of the local medical research institutes![]()
@lageos I didn't really measure the nikel thickness....since they didn't stop working ;p![]()
@placethesundontshine exactly, it's not easy to implement flow model for cell culture...but this cell culture on disc can do it in a elegant way![]()
the project was on high throughput cell culture analysis for drug discovery![]()
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The cell culture monitoring unit's microscope is quite good. I am putting together a 36-bioreactor tissue engineering test bed. We had put together a modified endoscope for each reactor with a blue-blocking coating (similar to Tac glasses or BluBlocker sunglasses) to cut down on the glare. Being able to view the cells in vivo means that you will no longer have to dye them and take them to an external microscope for validation. That is a big an accomplishment as the AFM work. Very well done.![]()
Recently I am writing a HardwareX article, to make lab on disc for everyone![]()
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@Prof. Jim Brenner Thanks :D I like this kind of fun development![]()
Did you release a control bored/code for controlling the HOP-15XX units at all?![]()
Linear CCD vs 2/4K webcam vs spycam and having thoughts of sensitivity and refresh rates. Though kind of a more narrow time very dynamic situation vs static sample.![]()
@placethesundontshine HOP-15xx? I didn't use this head before...![]()
The WiFi spy camera is similar to a project one of the groups in my Basics of Making class this summer is doing. https://fit.instructure.com/courses/604044 is a "quasi-syllabus" for the course. I am adding a lot of content to make the management of the projects go more smoothly.![]()
@James Finch do you mean lab on disc imaging?![]()
@Prof. Jim Brenner is that link your teaching material? cool :)![]()
Is that 15 separate wells you have on the cell culture disk, and you take a picture as each well goes past?![]()
you mentioned earlier that you were using the 7 axis controller for manipulating graphene. Was that a successful approach?![]()
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@Edwin Hwu More-so just a thought and not specific application other than possibly standalone or microscope. I need to study the lab on disc imaging more as I'm only familiar with your CD/DVD/BluRay parts use and DIY AFM when you presented initially. I need to read into your work more... wow... you've really been jamming on the nanopositioning I've seen recently.![]()
A start on my tissue engineering test bed work is at this link: https://fit.instructure.com/files/45147969/download?download_frd=1 and this one: https://fit.instructure.com/files/45147629/download?download_frd=1. Progress on my nanopositioning system are at https://fit.instructure.com/files/45607615/download?download_frd=1. Yes, that was my teaching material.![]()
@placethesundontshine I made the 7axes manipulator, but my colleague didn't get his project funded :(![]()
@James Finch haha...that's part of my "research advtisement" ;p![]()
Ah, I mean 16 wells. Could it be scaled to the usual cell culture sizes - 96, higher?![]()
Hack Chat Transcript, Part 2 06/15/2022 at 21:28 • 0 comments
The encoder costs around 150 Euro including the scale.....
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Affordable to some - not so affordable to others.![]()
(See y'all -- I'll have to read the rest in the transcripts)![]()
yeah.....more flexiblity for research institutes....![]()
how large a max displacement can those measure?![]()
Which series encoder did you use? The accuracy seems to be "+/- 1um"![]()
... oh per meter?![]()
The encoder has two different types of scale: glass, metal tape. The metal tape can go meters![]()
150euro, that's quite a bit less than I expected. That's definitely doable! Especially since a comparable piezo stage from Newport or Thor or whatever is like 2-5k USD![]()
We are using interferometry in the way that both @Edwin Hwu and @Jakob Wulfkind suggest. @Edwin Hwu - tell us a little about your global view for how to accomplish the nanopositioning. I have done scanning tunneling and atomic force microscopy for a long time. In those systems, you have a stepper motor to get the coarse motion and a piezoelectric motor to get the fine motion. How are you doing this?![]()
Let me check the model...because I use them 6 years ago...things chaged![]()
I built UHV STM, AFM and nano TXM before....I use my home made positioner for approaching and scanning![]()
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I seem to be unable to download a full text version of the u-LBIC conference contribution :/![]()
@Edwin Hwu I guess for the long travel range you demonstrated, encoders are the right choice. I thought about something with 0.5mm travel and 200nm repeatability or so... Do you have any experience with Hall sensors? Not sure if the resolution is high enough... But they are likely super cheap.![]()
https://www.instructables.com/A-Low-Cost-Atomic-Force-Microscope-%E4%BD%8E%E6%88%90%E6%9C%AC%E5%8E%9F%E5%AD%90%E5%8A%9B%E9%A1%AF%E5%BE%AE%E9%8F%A1/ one of my hobby work![]()
Out of curiosity how are those metal tapes encoded?![]()
I am not so familiar with the magnetic one...but my student told me that they are robust![]()
Those metal tapes has microscale marks....so be careful not to touch them![]()
What is the best way to get in get in touch with you to collaborate on closed loop positioning?![]()
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This is the one I am using![]()
1.2 nm![]()
I am amazed at the positioning speed in your videos, were those using your open source controller?![]()
@placethesundontshine you can contact me by email: etehw@dtu.dk![]()
or my gmail: whoand@gmail.com![]()
I also have some colleagues in DTU like to build one![]()
I really like to open source closed loop system, because it is more valuable and useful![]()
Have you done any force measurements on these? I assume they are pretty low force output before the magnet starts to slip?![]()
also, any plans for a goniometer or tip/tilt device? :)![]()
@polyfractal you are right, but if we use different mechanism for heavy weight![]()
I built tip till also...let me find photo![]()
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Have you explored the possibility of using photoelectric effect to fine-tune a piezo actuator's extension?![]()
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very cool! Looks like the tweezers are piezo-actuated with a flexure too. neat! is the tip/tilt mechanism flexure based as well?![]()
photoelectric effect? not yet touched ;P![]()
(unless that "tweezer" is an afm cantilever or something?)![]()
So are hard drive head positioners essentially "out of the box" nanopositioners? Or do they need some fine tuning?![]()
This 7 axes system was my fun work haha!![]()
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Yes, all flexture based rol/tip/til by 3 linear actuator![]()
OIW, are the tracks nanoscale apart on a disk platter?![]()
yes they are![]()
really fantastic work, hope you publish something about that 7ax system (or a blogpost or something 🙂)![]()
@Dan Maloney you are right! the hard drive arm is super precise!![]()
Thanks! My bad habit was not to do proper testing then moved to next one...so the 7 axes system is not publishable...![]()
Let me find the 7 axes sysetm video![]()
♥ thanks!![]()
I think hdd arms also have the superpower of higher bandwidth than a lot of "nano" scale actuators, no?![]()
Play Video![]()
oh! that's very clever![]()
Would you be interested in open sourcing those 7 axis for others to chip at?![]()
I dig those flexures!![]()
I found this interesting: https://documents.westerndigital.com/content/dam/doc-library/en_us/assets/public/western-digital/collateral/tech-brief/tech-brief-hgst-micro-actuator.pdf![]()
ah yep that is somewhat reminiscent of a hard drive head flexure![]()
@Edwin Hwu - It looks like you might have been part of the LEGO2NANO contest many years ago? Am I correct? I had a student start working toward that, but he veered off and focused on developing a metal 3D printer instead. That was a fascinating contest. Part of the focus of the maker education textbook that I am writing is how most of my work evolved out of trying to build and/or repair nanotechnology equipment. It looks like you have a very similar background.![]()
@placethesundontshine for sure! I hope you guys can help me to test the performance and publish in HardwareX![]()
How do you make the flextures? Wire EDM?![]()
What did you use the 7 axis stage for out of interest? very cool!![]()
Exactly, LEGO2NANO....I developed atomic force microscope (normally 100k USD) that can be assembled by school kids and get nano resolution imaging![]()
@John exactly! I love EDM ;3![]()
7 axis stage was for graphene deposition and manuplation....![]()
Time for a DIY EDM Hack Chat, methinks...![]()
Play Video![]()
The rotating screw will be very usefull in optics...how is it working?
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I wonder what will happen to motor prices when the first NewScale Squiggle patent expires![]()
(I guess similarly to the picomotor stuff, but I cant imagine)![]()
The rotary one is using two pzt and contact ped to drive the screw in opposite direction...![]()
Actually that's different from picomotor ;p![]()
Does the use of the screw mean it also has high driving force and is it locked when powered off?![]()
ok![]()
@Merijn Otterman exactly! this rotary piezo motor can drive 5 kg load vertically![]()
Are there any low cost commercial controllers you recommend? I'm excited to try to machine one of the axis in my garage!![]()
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haha....the commercial controller I like is from AttoCube, but cost 15k USD![]()
You can use Arduino plus DAC board plus piezoDrive HV amplifier![]()
lol, low cost is relative![]()
https://www.adafruit.com/product/935
ADAFRUIT
ADAFRUIT INDUSTRIES![]()
MCP4725 Breakout Board - 12-Bit DAC with I2C Interface
Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits MCP4725 Breakout Board - 12-Bit DAC with I2C Interface [STEMMA QT / qwiic] : ID 935 - Your microcontroller probably has an ADC (analog -> digital converter) but does it have a DAC (digital -> analog converter)??? Now it can!
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https://www.piezodrive.com/modules/pdu100-micro-piezo-driver/
PDu100 Micro Piezo Driver | PiezoDrive
The system block diagram is illustrated in Figure 2. A boost converter generates a high-voltage rail to supply a pair of complementary amplifiers. A single output can be used to drive a unipolar load up to +100 V or both amplifiers can be used to produce +/-100 V.
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The nanopositioning system I have is a cobbling of a lot of used equipment I bought off of EBay: a Zygo laser and controller; a ThorLabs x-y-z stage, stepper motor controllers to attach to the ThorLabs stage connected to a set of potentiometers (Newport hardware, but easily converted to generic), Newport NewFocus claw grips and piezoelectric Picomotors for the piezoelectric fine motor control. For really large scale work, instead of using the ThorLabs stage, I used the following: Parker/Daedal ViX250IH Electromechanical Positioning Systems Intelligent Digital Servo Drives.![]()
I think the Arduino and boards combination can get you nice control within 200 USD![]()
is the rotary unit published? and is backlash not a problem the thread?![]()
@Prof. Jim Brenner super cool! :D![]()
200USD per axis?![]()
@placethesundontshine not yet... :(![]()
i assume any inertial piezo motor controller would work, right? As long as the pzt voltage aligns with the controller and emits the right waveform? The Thorlabs k-cube inertial controllers are like $800... not cheap, but not 15k :)![]()
200 USD 3 axes....the PiezoDrive board costs 1XX USD, DAC 18 USD, Arduino XXUSD![]()
I actually like yours a lot better @Edwin Hwu. It is far cheaper. At the time that I started this, I was good at making, but not a motor control expert. This project was my introduction to the field. The Picomotors are quite nice hardware, but https://www.piezodrive.com/modules/pdu100-micro-piezo-driver/ is a much better approach. At the time, I had no plans on anyone else using what I built except me.![]()
Nice, do you machine any of your parts in your lab or send them out to be made?![]()
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@Hash my institute in Taiwan has super nice workshop with EDM, machine center....![]()
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@Dan Maloney: when I scroll up half a message (from the last ones) every second or so the chat scrolls down automatically. Is there a way to disable this behavior?![]()
Would a stepping piezo motor be easier controller-wise, not needing high voltage driver and allowing greater range of motion?![]()
PiezoDrive can replace my previous hv amplifier....100b has two channels![]()
One of the goals of my textbook is to come up with ways to teach making, especially the projects, in a way that makes it possible for nanotech people like us to build our own equipment. If one of my two AFM's die, I want to be able to build the replacement. The same goes for a lot of my other equipment. For Florida Tech's nanotech minor, we really got a lot more job offers for our students when we had a making course to the materials characterization, the synthesis, and the nanotech lecture.![]()
@John yeah...if you don't go Z direction...30 to 50V is enough![]()
$80 for the piezo driver - Wow! At that price, you could seriously build your own AFM. Even a teaching grade AFM is $38 K.![]()
@mh-nexus - Sadly, no. But I will have a transcript ready soon after the chat, so you can refer back to anything you've missed![]()
@Edwin Hwu what's the limit on range of motion in x-y?![]()
@Prof. Jim Brenner one company licensed my patents...they sell AFM for 3k USD ;)Hack Chat Transcript, Part 1 06/15/2022 at 21:26 • 0 comments
Looking forward to this Hack Chat! Super interesting work
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Hi all -- Hack CHat coming up in 30 minutes:![]()
https://hackaday.io/event/185521-low-cost-nanopositioning-hack-chat
Low-Cost Nanopositioning Hack Chat
En-Te Hwu will host the Hack Chat on Wednesday, June 15 at noon Pacific. Time zones got you down? Try our handy time zone converter. It may sound like a provocative statement to make, but technology has been on a downward trend for a long time.
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Hi Dan!![]()
Can't want to find out how y'all are getting nanoscale positioning.![]()
And what you mean by nanoscale positioning.![]()
'cause a nano is 10^-9 meters.![]()
That's crazy small![]()
Hey Mark -- think positioning stages for things like electron microscopy![]()
Oh sweet!![]()
Or microinjection into cell nuclei![]()
Patch-clamp rigs?![]()
Matt Berregren of Autodesk will definitely be interested.![]()
I'd say so -- being able to maneuver a micropipette over a single, specific nuclear pore complex or proton pump would be pretty cool![]()
I wonder if he's got anything for rotory positioning![]()
Good question Jabari....![]()
I suspect it would depend on your range of motion.![]()
true![]()
A stewart-platform might work -- give you the precision, but limited angular range of motion.![]()
Yo! I am Edwin, this is very interesting format of discussion :D![]()
Imagine a Stewart or a delta bot made with the modified linear slides shown in the event page pix![]()
https://hackaday.io/event/185521-low-cost-nanopositioning-hack-chat
Low-Cost Nanopositioning Hack Chat
En-Te Hwu will host the Hack Chat on Wednesday, June 15 at noon Pacific. Time zones got you down? Try our handy time zone converter. It may sound like a provocative statement to make, but technology has been on a downward trend for a long time.
![]()
I have a rotary (millions steps per resolution) design..![]()
Hey there Edwin! Welcome to the Chat -- we'll kick things off in just a minute![]()
Yeah...I can see ;)![]()
Nice discussion!![]()
BTW -- Dan -- I have to leave early, not leaving due to content or presenter :)![]()
But feel free to chat while we wait![]()
Hi Edwin!![]()
Thanks for the heads up -- work is work, amiright?![]()
Hi all!![]()
Sadly, this is Dentist is dentist.![]()
blargh...blargh I say!![]()
Edwin -- I'm interested in construction, precision, accuracy, backlash compensation, and force.![]()
Happy teeth are important oo![]()
*too![]()
@Mark J Hughes this is a good question.....![]()
![]()
![]()
It's nice to meet everyone. I am Jim Brenner, a professor from Florida Tech writing a textbook on making. I had several students working on a nanopositioning system two to three years ago. I like Dr. Hwu's design better.![]()
There are many different nanopositioners for different applications, heavy load, closed-loop, ultra high vacuum...rotational also![]()
@Edwin Hwu have you published that rotary unit yet?![]()
@Prof. Jim Brenner that's great!![]()
I am too busy for Health Tech research...It would be great if guys here can help me for making, characterization and publication![]()
Hello all, let's get things going! I'm Dan, and Dusan and I will be modding today as we welcome Edwin Hwu to the Hack Chat. Dr. Hwu (I had to!) is doing some fantastic work on making nanopositioning devices from common DIY parts and processes. Welcome to the chat, Edwin! Can you tell us what got you interested in this field?
![]()
Maybe I can collaborate also with @Prof. Jim Brenner also, I have many design collecting dust...![]()
@Edwin Hwu connect with Matt Berregren (Autodesk) -- he's making his own patch-clamp rig (or at least he was the last time I saw him pre-covid)![]()
Hello and welcome everyone!![]()
Dear all, I am originally from Taiwan and I have a Mechanical Engineering background. I worked in a fundamental research institute under Taiwanese President office. now I am doing my research in Denmark on Health technology.![]()
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattberggren/
![]()
I am interested everything that moving haha!![]()
But just a little ;)![]()
Should I open a Zoom room so that we can see each other?![]()
Moving in very small increments it seems xD![]()
Since I enter the Taiwanese institute, that's when Nanotechnology boom...![]()
cool! Should I look up what nanopositioning is first?![]()
nanopositioning.....is to move your sample or tip in nanoscale....![]()
under scanning probe microscopy or SEM![]()
@Prof. Jim Brenner -- we try to keep this just a text chat, but feel free to paste images, links, etc into the chat window![]()
Oh! that sounds useful.![]()
Yeah....maybe I can chat with @Prof. Jim Brenner on Zoom another day ;)![]()
considering this DIY systen it as a plan B for an LBIC myself, if the steppers fail my requirements![]()
LBIC: laser beam induced (photo)current in solar cells![]()
BTW, I used Blu-ray optics for nano LBIC too ;)![]()
LBIC?![]()
Sub-micrometre μ-LBIC Characterisation of Silicon Solar Cells Based on a Blue Laser Pick-up Unit![]()
The for the tip Edwin, I will look into Blu-ray as well, I think nanoposition might be overkill![]()
WELCOME TO DTU RESEARCH DATABASE
Sub-micrometre μ-LBIC Characterisation of Silicon Solar Cells Based on a Blue Laser Pick-up Unit
competitive and versatile optoelectronic characterisation system. A blue laser pick-up unit (LPU) is used here to achieve a highly focused laser beam with a full width half maximum as small as 250 nm on the cell's surface. A photocurrent map is then generated with precise sample movement using a piezo stage and a pico-ammeter.
Read this on Welcome to DTU Research Database
![]()
I did use nanopositioner for this setup haha...![]()
I will read that paper first thing in the morning![]()
Great!![]()
You showed in the paper your open source controller and a commercial controller. How did the results differ in your tests using the open source version?![]()
Besides Prof. Brenner, who would like to make closed loop nanopositioner? I would like to try if we can "crowdsource building" this![]()
The commercial controller has nice stepping and scanning functions....the open source controller can do only stepping :p![]()
I'm interested -- but time constrained.![]()
<---- count me in![]()
Could perhaps help with the control / electronics. Did piezo's for a resonant fluid actuator and some other designs![]()
I would also love to see a closed loop version.![]()
Who doesn't want a closed-loop nanopositioner??![]()
@John oh...yeah!![]()
You can ask Dan to give you my email -- I can help you with the PCB design & fabrication.![]()
I might be able to do more than that if I tie it in with a sponsor company.![]()
I can feel Germany companies like Smaract and Attocube are sweating....XD![]()
I'd love to know what find of sensor could be used to close such a physically small loop![]()
If I end up building one for the LBIC I would also be interested in closed loop XD![]()
let me find the link for closed loop sensor I sue![]()
Is there an affordable nm resolution encoder? That seems diffiult to DIY![]()
The vision I had for this is to use a set of lasers in X, Y, and Z to correct for registry issues to ensure that everything is aligned.![]()
ah nevermind :)![]()
![]()
![]()
https://www.celeramotion.com/microe/products/linear-encoders/
![]()
@polyfractal Probably not an optical one. But there are magnetic field sensors -- if they have sufficient resolution they might work.![]()
@Mark J Hughes - sent him you contact info![]()
Thanks @Dan Maloney![]()
Those little guys sized like your fingernail can get you 1nm accuracy...![]()
How do you deal with the effects of imperfections on the surfaces of the linear slides in your measurements?![]()
woah![]()
Magnetic sensor can get somewhat 50nm![]()
Capacitance?![]()
So we're now at the "If it can exist, it probably does, and someone has commercialized it" point, are we?![]()
Yes Dan -- yes we are.![]()
And yet we DIY anyway![]()
the imperfection is fine...because no surface is perfect....the mm scale contact area can absorb the imperfection like roughness![]()
What about using a beam splitter on a violet laser to create a Michelson interferometer? Wouldn't that give ~10uM resolution?![]()
What does one of those commercial position sensors run?![]()
@Edwin Hwu with magnetic sensors and 50nm you refer to Hall sensors, right? Do you expect any interference with the magnets used for the motion?![]()
When I was in PTB (German metrology institute) we use interferometer to get 10 pm resolution control ;)![]()
As I know, the magnets did not interfer the encoder....since the magnet is always there.![]()
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