Project Logs

Collapse

• First feedback: H I / radio observations and next steps

  Younes HASSANABADI • 11/26/2025 at 22:03 • 0 comments

  # First feedback: H I / radio observations and next steps

  This log records the first serious feedback I received on the **Layered-Light Interpretation (LLI)** hypothesis, and how it affects the scope of the idea.

  Shortly after publishing the project, [Namik Yer](https://hackaday.io/hacker/17351-namik-yer) raised a very important point:

  > What about radio / H I observations?  
  > Many galaxy rotation curves are derived from the 21 cm line of neutral hydrogen, not only from optical starlight.  
  > In the outer H I regions there is very little dust, and radio waves are not affected by scattering in the same way as visible light.

  This is a **critical challenge** for any explanation that is purely optical.

  ---

  ## 1. What I currently think about H I and LLI

  At the moment, my view is:

  - In the **dusty, optically bright inner and intermediate disk**, the LLI mechanism (mixing of inner and outer light along the line of sight) could bias the inferred velocities.  
  - In the **outer H I regions**, where dust is minimal and the 21 cm line is used, the observed flatness is much more likely to be genuinely dynamical (and there dark matter or modified gravity may still be needed).

  So LLI is **not** intended as a complete replacement for dark matter in the radio / H I regime.  
  It is better understood as an **optical / structural correction** for the stellar, dusty part of the rotation curve:

  - shrinking or reshaping part of the anomaly,  
  - rather than eliminating the need for extra gravity everywhere.

  A serious test in the future would be to compare **optical** and **H I** rotation curves for the same galaxies and see in which radial ranges they diverge or agree.

  ---

  ## 2. Towards a “toy model” (first quantitative step)

  The feedback also makes it clear that LLI must eventually move from a purely conceptual framework to at least a **simple quantitative model**.

  My first goal is to build a *toy model*:

  - Use a simplified, two-layer galaxy:
    - inner, bright, fast layer with speed `v_in`
    - outer, faint, slower layer with true speed `v_out_real(r) ∝ 1 / sqrt(r)`
  - Assign light intensities:
    - `I_out(r)` decreasing with radius (outer stars)
    - `I_in->out(r)` representing a small “leakage” of inner light into the outer line of sight
  - Compute the apparent velocity:
    - `v_eff(r) = (I_out * v_out_real + I_in->out * v_in) / (I_out + I_in->out)`

  By plotting both `v_out_real(r)` and `v_eff(r)` for different choices of `I_in->out / I_out`, I can check:

  - how strong the inner-light contamination must be to noticeably flatten the apparent rotation curve,  
  - and whether this effect is potentially significant or only a tiny correction.

  Even such a simple model (implemented in Python or even in a spreadsheet) would already help clarify how “strong” LLI would have to be in order to matter.

  ---

  ## 3. Next steps

  From this first feedback, my updated roadmap is:

  1. **Clarify the scope** of LLI in the write-up:  
     - explicitly separate the dusty, optical inner disk from the outer H I regime;  
     - state clearly that LLI is a methodological / optical correction, not a full substitute for dark matter.

  2. **Build a first toy model**:
     - two or three layers (bulge + disk),
     - simple intensity and velocity profiles,
     - compute and plot `v_eff(r)` vs `v_out_real(r)`.

  3. Later, if possible:
     - compare optical vs H I rotation curves in the same galaxies,  
     - and explore whether LLI can plausibly contribute to part of the observed flatness in the inner / intermediate regions.

  Many thanks again to Namik for raising the H I / radio question and for pointing in the direction of quantitative tests. This is exactly the kind of critical input that helps transform the hypothesis into something that can be checked, constrained,...

  Read more »

• First publication of the layered-light interpretation hypothesis

  Younes HASSANABADI • 11/25/2025 at 15:36 • 0 comments

  This log marks the first public release of my **layered-light interpretation hypothesis** for galactic rotation curves.

  In standard cosmology, flat rotation curves are usually interpreted as strong evidence for dark matter. In this project, I explore a different angle: the idea that part of the “anomaly” might come from the way light is blended and scattered inside a spiral galaxy, before it reaches our telescopes.

  The core idea is simple to state:

  > The light recorded at the visible edge of a galaxy is not purely the light of local outer stars, but a mixture of several structural layers.  
  > If bright, fast inner layers contribute enough scattered light along the same line of sight, their Doppler signature can contaminate the outer spectra and artificially increase the *apparent* rotation speed at large radii.

  In the **Details** section I present the full argument:  
  – how rotation curves are usually measured,  
  – why multilayer structure and beam smearing matter,  
  – the role of dust and H I gas in building diffuse galactic light,  
  – and a simple symbolic formulation for the effect on the inferred velocity.

  ### Language versions

  The full text of the hypothesis is available in three languages:

  - **English** – main version, in the *Details* section and as a `.docx` file  
  - **French (français)** – see the `.docx` file under the *Files* tab  
  - **Persian (فارسی)** – also available as a `.docx` file under *Files*

  Feedback is very welcome — especially on:

  - physical assumptions that might be missing or oversimplified,  
  - possible observational tests or simulations that could confirm or falsify this idea,  
  - related work I may have missed in the literature.

  Thanks for reading, and feel free to comment or fork the idea if you want to push it further.

View all 2 project logs