Paul Kocyla, if you need access to advanced PCB technology and solutions email this company: http://www.papcb.com/flex-pcb/

They have access to some very high-tech solutions (undergoing patents applications now). I seen them develop MCPCB for improved components cooling, airspace included. This should help you reduce component temperatures or move it to desired location.

Pending updates on your project! I was told 15 years ago that EMD is fiction, want to see it proven otherwise! 

After all this time, the thurst comming from the miraculous engine turned out to be just an interaction between it's and Earth's magnetic field, which was omitted in the researches. Unfortunately, none of the EMdrives works anywhere.

Hello Paul

How is this project going? 

I see you have a gofundme page with a collection target that is very achievable if there is still ongoing and positive progress.

Thruster development is always more difficult and the timeline longer than originally expected but worth pursuing. 

Given the massive impact that a working thruster would have on space travel, I find it strange that there have been no serious attempts to trial one on a cubesat so your project deserves some support if the basics are already in place and the project is still active.

Paul, are you going to include the sapphire plate to the big plate inside the vessel as the new patient shows?

As I read it the sapphire was only a support for the superconducting material. My endplate is just silver, as YBCO would not give any benefit at 24GHz. 

Is your python code on github? I'd like to try building a genetic algorithm to see if there might be better shape/Q values out there.

It´s written in C, but embedded in other code I used for an orbital simulator, so nothing publishable yet. When I fnd time, I´ll post the relevant functions or strip the code down.

Probably been covered before, but why would an EM-drive be better than simply expelling photons (either RF or light) efficiently? That is, not making a "reactionless" thruster but just a normal photon thruster?

I´m not completely sure, but it looks like a photon only transfers a very small amount of energy during a reflection, so the more often it bounces, the more energy it can transfer. The simulation shows that the push-vector on the body accumulates into the direction of the small plate.
This would also explain why a higher Q factor of the cavity resulted in a higher thrust.
^^ my guess, no guarantee for correctness

Did a little research, I think the EMDrive may end up being more efficient than photonic thrusters with optimization:

(From the "On the exhaust of electromagnetic drive" paper):

mean thrust of 91.2 μN with 16.9 W was recorded at 1932.6 MHz corresponding to the first TM211 mode in the tapered cavity having a quality factor of about 7320 and the mean thrust of 50.1 μN with 16.7 W was recorded at 1936.7 MHz corresponding to the second TM211 mode and the quality factor of about 18000 => 5.4uN/W

(From Wikipedia, Photonic Laser Thruster):

thrust of 3.5 mN ... the amplified laser power of the photonic laser thruster was greater than 500 kW, which was powered by a 500 W laser => 7uN/W

Paul, now more than ever I think I have found out the mechanism as to how this works. I think what we have made is interestingly something we have made before, only this time we haven't used a ruby crystal to set everything up. If I am correct, we have something like a ruby laser. Everything that you can find in a laser we have in the EMdrive, a resonance chamber (in a laser it is a rod of ruby with mirrored ends, one with a small hole in it, the EMdrive is the same except everything goes through a vacuum) a pump source (in lasers, that is a light source that flashes at a particular rate, in the EMdrive it is the microwave source) , it even needs to be a certain length for the resonating chamber for a particular wavelenght of light, in our case we need a particular wavelenght to get force. What if the two concepts are exactly what we have been needing to look at, the partical escaping would be correctly idenified as a photon, and it's emittion would cause force to go in the opposite direction as one of the plates failed to act as a refective source.

a smart observation.  i wonder why they not just use a maser in the experiments? 

One note: the EmDrive requires the use of spread-out waves (in order to
resonate), it would produce no thrust. So there is something different working here. I personally think that the presentation of the waves in the frustrum is essential. Thats why Guido Fetta choose a form that looks like the wave itself.  the em-drive needs a synchronised "clean" wave to work, not a distorted one. In the new patent https://www.ipo.gov.uk/p-find-publication-getPDF.pdf?PatentNo=GB2537119&DocType=A&JournalNumber=6647  you find more information..

In a way, the laser does the same. If anything, the one true difference is that any stray light rays from the ruby cylinder get discarded. Where as in the EMdrive, very little is being discarded because what ever might be leaving is very small in comparison to that which is staying. Also, I don't say the form of the EMdrive needs to change, quite the opposite infact. The new patient for the EMdrive actually made me quite happy with my theory. The shape is nessary as, unlike a laser, it would be almost impossible to focus the microwaves to the point where it could be useful with a regular cylinder. It might be also why a Maser might have an issue, but that is an interesting experiment for another time. It is possible that the next logical step up is the introduction of a maser or sets of masers.

The interesting addition in the new patent is the use of a helix shaped antenna, to "guide" the rf wave into a specific form. There is also a phase locked loop attached to the system to sync the waves. Shawyer choosed carefully for mechanical parts that dont need much maintenance. A maser maybe dissipate too much heat in  the frustrum, unless they choose for a solid state one that works on lower temperatures. But nevertheless, if you can implement stimulated emmisions in a em-drive, this would be a huge improvement.. :)

Another thing of note, and it caught my eye in the newest patent is the sapphire substrate. Information gleaned from patent figure 1 (4). This is of interest as sapphire is used in room temperature masers. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20211783 It is possible that Shawyer is thinking one step ahead both in a mechanical sense and in a pure physics sense. Though there is one aspect I think we might also be overlooking and it is the reason I believe there is photons that are leaving the resonating chamber, no matter how we look at it a photon is still a small partical and I believe that there is quantum tunneling at work. The basis of this theory is we are pretty much ensuring that there is multiple impacts of photons aginst the inside of the chamber, almost the textbook case as the starting condition of quantum tunneling. Making photon escape not just a possibility, but a probable outcome.

If what I hypothesize is correct there could be a electron shift in the outer shells  of the arriving adatoms based on the article out of ETH Zurich https://www.ethz.ch/en/news-and-events/eth-news/news/2016/08/electrons-at-the-speed-limit.html

I once theorised the same, was hoping they would cover one of the ends with an insulator to test, but they are just hoping to get some forces out that they can see and I don't have the money or means to do the tests myself.

Ok I have a challenge for your Em drive without in situ space testing. In Vacuum!

I have access to as the retired owner a Vacuum chamber capable of 10-7 torr with a ion beam sputtering source  that sputters metals and metal oxides at substrates. 

As these are very well defined optical structures with well  known packing densities and optical constants  any structural change to their arrival on substrates  could be determined post deposition, if a em drive was situated in a way to push the arriving adatoms away from their intended arrival pattern   ,Ie know thickness, uniformity across a given area and there change in optical constants both in Transmission and reflection of their polarized components, this could be easily measured against many 1000 of runs of optical filters with very narrow line frequency at multiple wavelenths.

Could you guys point me in the direction of reading material to understand the concepts of photon pairs, phases and other advanced concepts you are talking about in these comments. Unfortunately my physics education ends at conservation of momentum and I would dearly love to understand things more. I also think i need to brush up my maths.

Check this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave–particle_duality

Beautiful model! 

Does your model look at paired photons out of phase with each other? Each bounce would reflect the photon in a different phase depending on the wavelength and the distance traveled before collision with a wall. Then they would need to pair with a photon of the opposite phase before being able to exit taking the momentum with them.  When the momentum of the pair exceeded the Q of the wall then it would punch through transferring the momentum. The question there would be "is it possible to change the angle of the sides of the nozzle's cone to maximize that pairing based on wavelength?"

If it was just photons punching through wouldn't they be detectable? It would be interesting if it was just the momentum that is escaping.  Maybe there are momentum particles like the Higgs and those are what is escaping. I understand that CERN is looking for something similar this next round. 

Your model does agree with your observations though.

Really looking forward to your posting the model.

I didn´t implement the paired photon theory. While developing I just implemented the reflection including momentum transfer - which actually includes the conservation of momentum. I expected the EMDrive´s momentum to be zero after releasing photons, but it turns out that the momentum of the body builds up towards the small end - at least in the simulation with this simple model.

In german: http://www.golem.de/news/em-drive-der-warp-antrieb-muss-noch-warten-1606-121641.html

It seems a chinese team did this experiment with a battery as power supply, all contained on the measured platform, and then the effect vanishes.

I read the abstract - cause that´s the only part in English ;)
Their scale can measure 3mN and more. NASA Eagleworks measured 50µN thrust, that´s like one order of magniture smaller than the Chinese paper´s experiment test rig can resolve. I must check if they had similar power input.
It´s difficult to compare results when the testrig sensitivities vary so much.
Checked it: Nasa had less than 20W input and max. 90µN thrust

Was there any measurements of the thickness of both the small round plate and large round plate?

There was no detailed information as far as I remember. They were talking about "interesting results".

Reason why I ask is can we make the small round plate thinner? Doesn't have to be by a lot to test my new assumption. If it is a paired phased photon package that is the cause, decreasing the thickness of the smaller plate should increase thrust, as it provides less material to block the release of the paired phased photons.

Ok, I get what your idea is. My answer is I don´t know. So IF the paired photon theory is true, it would be good to know how far the photons propagate with 180° phase difference. If it´s forever or if they unpair after a few micrometers. I don´t know..

If the Finnish paired photon theory is correct and if they unpair after a short time then the photons would be of different frequencies. Therefore they would only pair briefly as the frequency was changed.

If the photons unpaired wouldn't they then be detectable?

Oddly enough, that was going to naturally be my next question. All it should take is something like a can of undeveloped film and putting the drive in a darkroom and turning it on. The undeveloped film should capture the photons as they exit and leave evidence of them, as long as everything that could give off light was covered.

Have you read the latest theory presented by researchers from two universities in Finland on the operational theory of the EM drive?

http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/journal/adva/6/6/10.1063/1.4953807

Paired nonmagnetic photon pairs generate the thrust and according to their model the thrust is generated at the small end as you've found. My noob reading makes me think that they think it is similar to gravity. Could a interferometer be used, like they seem to imply, to detect these photon pairs?

Amazing theory. I hope they are right. If it's understood it can be made more efficient. 

I read it. They say that the photons which are paired are phase shiftet by 180° and so don´t interact with the walls of the cavity. They seem vanished but in fact they leave the cavity and take momentum with them - which creates the thrust.
But I don´t understand it in detail.

Would a silicon crystal photovoltaic detect them?

I made some measurements with the cavity behind the interferometer beam, but the result was not clear.
I ordered a new polished silver cavity for the flight model, it will have a higher Q. Thanx for the info, I´ll perform the interferometer test again when it´s assembled.

I really don´t know if they can be detected at all. I remember having read somewhere that they are very hard to detect because they don´t interact on electromagnetical level with matter anymore when paired. But "very hard" is not impossible. I need to look for more infos online.

Hey Randy. I´ll try to code a simulator for the paired photon theory during weekend. Waiting for parts for the #EMPQ satellite anyway, so I can use the time to do that. It will be a simpliied 2D version - just an experimental quick try to see what happens if you throw photons around a tapered cone and superimpose their phase. I won´t publish it until it´s ready. I´ll release the software if it shows interesting behaviour so everyone can try their EMDrive shape with it. The model will be not exact, because it´s 2D and it´s quantized to pixel-leve.l. But it might be plausible. So I just treat is as a "toy" but hey let´s see what´s the outcome.

I know you're crazy busy. Thanks for talking. This is such a cool project. Wish I could "like-like" it:-)

I wonder if there are ways to simplify the test. 

If the Finnish model is right, then the photon pairs only escape when they exceed the Q(is that right?) of the small end. If the photon pair is low enough energy they would bounce off the higher Q silver mirror. Too high and they will pass through. So we won't know what percentage could be detectable and we'll only detect the photon-pairs for a relative narrow band of energy. We also don't know how long it takes for a photon-pair to form.

Is it possible to just measure mirror deflection with the drive on and with it off?

Would thrust be more directional if the material at the larger end was a higher Q value?

Oddly enough I was toying with that same idea myself. Entirely possible as copper is of a lower Q factor then silver, but still higher enough that it might be able to work well enough for resonance.

 I think the overall Q factor of the cavity will be lowered when changing the endplate to a material with lower conductivity. The material itself has no Q factor. Q factor is reciproc proportional to the bandwidth of the resonator and has no dimension.

Hey Randy: Actually it was not meant as a sarcastic joke with writing the simulator :) That software is really on the todo-list. I blew the dust from my OpenGL sources and will do a 3D-Simulation for the paired photons.

I'm having trouble understanding where the photons come from. Is it the interference of the microwaves or the interaction of the microwaves with the gas in the chamber (eg. Oxygen)?

Some papers talk about microwave frequency photons being very weak. 

They all point out to me how much more I need to read to learn more about microwaves.

BTW HAD, the reply structure is too shallow.

Reply structure: Definitely crappy :-D
Waves and photons are the same thing. It´s the particle-wave duality. The higher the Q factor of the cavity is, the more often the photons can bounce around, therefore more photons are inside the cavity - therefore the probability arises that two photons pair with 180° phase difference and leave the cavity (assuming the finnish theory is true).
Microwave photons are weak compared to light , because Energy=h*frequency ( h is planck constant) Light has a much higher frequency than the microwaves in the cavity.

Arrgh, I "knew" that but never made the connection. Ok, then why would this only work with microwaves? Does something to do with the higher energy state of visible light photons make it harder for them to pair?

I don´t know. Maybe the conical shape of the cavity is advantagous for the photons to take the same path after a few reflections. I think I´ll have to spend some time to write that simulator. Maybe the answer will come that way.

Hey Paul. Can confirm that "IslandPlaya" is a known troll from /r/emdrive. 

Other DIY builders have started a new subreddit here: https://www.reddit.com/r/QThruster/

Please feel free to join and submit. We hope to see you there! I'll make sure to drop by and visit you here from time-to-time. 

Thanx, i´ll do it.

Troll alert for "IslandPlaya". He appeared here as an already known troll from reddit to spread his crap. Please ignore him, he´s not here for discussion.

This paper http://vixra.org/pdf/1603.0153v1.pdf I believe describes the best experiment yet on the em drive anomalous force. It finds ZERO force. Paul, please continue to improve your experiments by all means, but can I suggest you withdraw requests for donations of cash from others to fund your hobby. It appears to me to be less than totally honest, which I'm sure is not your intention. Thank you.

EDIT: I removed the accidental dupe post.

Please don´t post the same comment twice. And may I suggest that you introduce yourself first before throwing comments at me. It´s getting annoying of waving away trolls. BTW this is not the right platform to discuss your problems with sex.

Addidtional information to others: This guy has been classified as a troll already on reddit.

My name is IslandPlaya. I have been following the saga of the em drive since Shawyer's appearance in New Scientist magazine many years ago. I am (amongst other things) an investigative journalist.
Can you please share your opinion of the paper I posted and how you are going to improve your equipment to better it. A suggestion would be for you to invest in a graph-axis-labeling machine to start with.
Your BTW is a bit strange I think.

Thank you.

EDIT: If you prefer we can continue this conversation at https://www.reddit.com/r/EmDrive/comments/4ng1l6/new_hackaday_baby_emdrive_tests/d45w90l if you prefer that platform.

Axis labels described in the logs - so far for "investigative journalist".
Maybe a valuable information for the others as the paper is out there: This paper claims that there is no force WITHIN THE RESOLUTION of the setup tadaaaa nothing new my journalist - it has no specific meaning so far. There are other papers with positive results. That´s why it´s  still controversial.
Don´t play clever with me, you are not a journalist, you are not a scientist and you are not an engineer, right? Not hard to guess.

This would be a more complete bibliography:


Second generation EmDrive propulsion applied to SSTO
launcher and interstellar probe by Mr. Shawyer 

(http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576515002726)

Numerical and Experimental Results for a Novel Propulsion
Technology Requiring no On-Board Propellant 

(http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2014-3853)


Youtube video by Mr. Berca “EmDrive Success, I have thrust
!!!” ().


Microwave Energy Injection into a Conical Frustum by Dave
Distler.

 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=38203.0;attach=1072181;sess=0)


Direct Thrust Measurements of an EMDrive and Evaluation of
Possible Side-Effects.

(http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2015-4083).


EmDrive: Propellantless Electric Propulsion 

(https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9kf1WLqrnPnekpoSGtyVW0zMjQ/view)


Net thrust measurement of propellantless microwave  thrusters*
(http://emdrive.com/yang-juan-paper-2012.pdf)


Later Modified by Thrust Measurement of an Independent
Microwave ThrusterPropulsion Device with Three-Wire Torsion Pendulum Thrust
Measurement System 

(http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39772.0;attach=1113532)


Anomalous Thrust Production from an RF Test Device

(http://libertariannews.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/AnomalousThrustProductionFromanRFTestDevice-BradyEtAl.pdf)
(http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2014-3853).


My understanding is several other independent researchers
are claiming positive results, but have yet to revealed their final reports.

(http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39772.msg1547834#msg1547834).

(https://www.reddit.com/r/EmDrive/comments/3xniwa/exciting_news_from_seeshells/)


Also, NASA Eagleworks, based on their last communication,
has continued to claim positive results 

(http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/11/nasa-eagleworks-has-tested-upgraded.html).

However, NASA continues to await publication of their peer reviewed materials. (http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/news/a20076/the-emdrive-will-undergo-peer-review-that-it-wont-pass/).

A private company, Cannae, just recently completed a successful demonstration of their superconducting EmDrive-like cavity. 

(http://cannae.com/another-successful-superconducting-demo-completed/).


All the experiments, however, are still very controversial
and better experiments will be needed to convince the scientific community and rule out other explanations for the alleged "thrust". Thermal and electromagnetic spurious effects have not been totally ruled out entirely.


Hopefully, Paul Kocyla and his team will help to validate or invalidate the
EmDrive. Putting the EmDrive into orbit is probably the only way to demonstrate
a definitive proof one way or another and a Cubsat is likely the only economical way to do that in the short term. 

Thanx for summing up the information to the point, great!
We will try our best to make the satellite launch happen. And no matter what results we get, it will be an exciting time.
The satellite is designed to be interesting for radio amateurs and those who want to become one because of its special transmitting mode. We are writing "visually" a text into the frequency spectrum which can be received with a simple antenna and an USB stick. As no EMDrive has been in space yet it could be an exciting adventure for everyone to receive and track it.

Wow! Thank you very much for your effort, these are excellent news :)

So, what I see from the combined graph is a green line that I assume means angular changes in the unit during test and the yellow line is the thrust generated. The reason I ask is that the reports I hear about through the media seem to imply the thrust generated is very small and almost within measurement error. Your results seem to indicate a strong directional thrust with no measureable angular component that would seem to be proof this isn't due to parasitic forces. Is my interpretation correct?

The yellow graph is the frequency of the transmitter and the green line is the angular displacement.
I made a viewer so you can change the yellow graph to either frequency, phase, power, temperature or PA current.
The test data is saved as plain text. Take a look at the repository link.
During these tests, I sweep the transmitter frequency between 22,5 GHz and 25.5 GHz over several hours and measure the displacement at the same time. Around 24 GHZ, which is the designed frequency for the cavity, the displacement is strongest, and it changes directiion when the cavity is turned 180°.
I could assume that the temperature change of the cavity plays a parasitic role, but in fact id doesn´t. The temperature is rising constantly with rising frequency, but the peak first gets stronger and then weaker during the period. 
It´s a strong implication for me that the EMDrive works.
You can check the data with the viewer if you like. The latest files are june01sr.emd and june02br.emd

Great work! Since there seems to be a method set up now, could we maybe try modifying the vessel design just a little bit more, like maybe changing the most of the vessel to ceramic, but leaving the small plate as silver?

Just out of curiosity, why ceramic?

Well, microwave vessels can be made from ceramic, my thought is since a dialectric has proven to not hamper the possible creation of force, and everything being equal, that a ceramic vessel should be of similar ability. If there is a change, my thought is that it could be a direct result of vessel change. However if there is no change, then it points to a new reality, possibly even lighter drives.

According to the theory, the thrust is linearly proportional to the Q factor of the cavity.
When the cavity is made of non-conductive ceramic, the Q-factor will be a few thousand times smaller - resulting in basically no thrust at all.
What I can play with are different dielectrics inside.

Any chance you could try dielectrics on the outside as well? Or was that the results you got from 4/22/2016 posting?

Putting it outside would theoretically have no effect, because the wave penetrates the conductive inside material in some micrometer depth -> skin effect

The other reason for the dielectric on the outside is to test one of the main draws of this type of drive. To see if the drive can cause force when inside a vehicle or even inside a box. If the drive is in an enclosed box, it should still move the box as the force is due to what is happening inside the vessel, not outside. It should be a form fitted box around the vessel only. If a success, it means that it validates the main tenet of the emdrive. If it fails, it might give us a zero drive, which is just as important as it allows for even more effective emdrives.

What we could try, and I would like to help you organize a crowd fund for this,  is

coating the inner walls of the emdrive with YBaCuO and than cool the EMDrive with liquid nitrogen.

Would you like to do this?

@Horst: In a former log I mentioned to make a superconductive cavity. I have the materials here, chemicals, oven, dewars.
Due to time issues I suspend the superconductive build until the satellite is ready.