Lutetium-
Hack Chat Transcript, Part 2
07/13/2022 at 20:08 • 0 comments@Kaushlesh Chandel - we are seeing a lot of projects that really get excitement from kids. High altitude balloons, ISS contacts, fox hunting, kit building, ... it just takes motivated mentors/elmers who will work with them and make it fun/interesting.
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I've looked into the Bluetooth tnc ( couldn't buy any yet ) I am not suggesting one device or another... just thinking of how can it be easy and fun ( turn on, and it works ) for a Gen Z![]()
AATiS is a great concept, should be copied all over the world. That’s a German non-profit organization bringing ham radio to the schools by offering teaching material and low-priced kits with a ham radio and STEM orientation![]()
@Jan Weber -- Do you have contacts at AATiS?![]()
LoRa APRS seems strong in EU but I have not seen much of it in the USA!![]()
@John Hays : No. but have a look here: https://www.aatis.de/content/![]()
@Jan Weber - Thanks![]()
KE6WOB -- Sorry I'm late!![]()
@fid There is this, which is essentially a portable radio's internals controlled by Arduino and serial port ATDT commands - https://www.hobbypcb.com/index.php/products/uhf-vhf-radio/rs-uv3a![]()
@K2LCT - I actually worked a lot of LoRa APRS last year using an STA call I applied for. The ability is there, but the power limits are pretty restricting. You'll need high andtennas and a clear freq. bandwidth of at least 125 kHz to be effective.![]()
BTW - this project has been very successful and the leader would be happy to share experiences https://www.ampr.org/grants/2021-grants/grant-m17-open-protocol/![]()
No worries @Mark J Hughes. And welcome!![]()
Sorry (wrong paste). This one https://www.ampr.org/grants/2021-grants/grant-engaging-and-educating-youth-in-amateur-radio-through-hands-on-space-science-activities/![]()
And FYI all -- I'll post a transcript after the chat in case you want to refer back to any of these links![]()
If anyone has any questions on M17 please head to our website m17project.org and link to our discord![]()
Hi @John Hays :)![]()
How do we get in touch with you outside of hackaday?![]()
I have a project that I'd like to see accomplished -- but no time for it myself. Perhaps you know some people who can help?![]()
@Steve Miller and I have a german ham that wants to build FIDOnet on top of LORAwan but needs developers (he is primarily a tech writer).![]()
Thanks @Dan Maloney . A transcript would be great.![]()
@Mark J Hughes contact@ardc.net, and our website is ampr.org![]()
That uv3a board looks like a fun prototyping to build with GnuRadio.![]()
Thanks!![]()
:thumbsup:![]()
I have a hard stop at the top of the hour. If there are any specifics for me. You can also reach out for grants at giving@ardc.net or me personally at john.hays@ardc.net![]()
@John Hays LoRaWAN, or LoRa the modulation? I'm going to be honest here, I'm against using closed protocols (LoRa is owned by Semtech, and was only exposed through reverse engineering) - but something like FIDO on LoRa is possible. I mean, we're only talking the PHY layer with LoRa. I'd suggest taking a look at Reticulum Network Stack, I've been in contact with Mark Qvist off and on about it and is very, very interesting.![]()
I am a long-time programmer... I did a lot of work on Arduino's, Raspberry pi's Lora, BT, Zigbee, SDR's, et al. Ill be happy to work on interesting projects.![]()
@Steve Miller I believe that's all under the non-profit now as a standard.![]()
@Kaushlesh Chandel Please email me markjarrodhughes@gmail.com![]()
@Steve Miller - we are all about open source, and any development of software / hardware that we fund will need to fall under that umbrella. However, most radios are full of proprietary components so existing technology will sometimes be intellectual property encumbered -- we would have a hard time funding something like a repeater if it had to have no IP in it, from a pragmatic point of view.![]()
@William Stearns Oh, interesting. If it's a well documented modulation type, it's possible it could be used on amateur bands.![]()
@KC1AWV : What’s the use of a crypto networking stack with respect to ham radio? I thought ham radio communication is ought to be in clear text?![]()
@Mark J Hughes I just emailed you.![]()
@Jan Weber The encryption is not intended to hide the message, rather allow the network to work. Anyone on the stack can see and monitor messages, AFAIK. There's a discussion about it in the RNS github.![]()
@Jan Weber in the US at least, encryption to obscure the meaning of the content is prohibited. Command and control can be obscured to my understanding.![]()
I second @John Hays . Was about to say that Ham communication cannot be encrypted![]()
What about steganography? Encoding a hidden (possibly encrypted) signal on top of a cleartext message, in eg. a phase jitter?![]()
Steganography is good... It would need a much larger image payload. And again... its encrypted and not legal![]()
Thank you![]()
Hey folks, I have to hop off. Thank you so much @Dan Maloney for having me and @John Hays on the hack chat! It's been great chatting with everyone.![]()
I thought I should share my call sign. K6FID. I might see you on the radio. :-)![]()
The point of stego is to not get caught.![]()
You bet, I was just about to call time. Thanks Rosy!![]()
Thank you @Rosy Schechter . It was an interesting topic.![]()
73 ll![]()
thanks @Dan Maloney and @fid![]()
bug us with grant proposals ;)![]()
73![]()
@Rosy Schechter Many thanks![]()
73 , thanks for the chat![]()
And thanks to John too! I really appreciate your time today, as well as all the great questions from the crowd. Thanks!![]()
Yes, I have another commitment now. Thanks everybody, I will leave the chat open, but not see a question due to multi-tasking -- 73 to all.![]()
73's![]()
Thanks @Rosy Schechter![]()
Thank you all for participating!![]()
73 de K2LCT![]()
Thanks ARDC! 73 de NE4RD![]()
@Jan Weber - I found the discussion that I mentioned here: https://github.com/markqvist/Reticulum/issues/69#issuecomment-1167083780![]()
It’s getting late here. Good night! -
Hack Chat Transcript, Part 1
07/13/2022 at 20:08 • 1 comment![]()
Hello!![]()
Hi folks, welcome to the Hack Chat! I'm Dan (N7DPM), and I'll be modding today along with Dusan as we welcome Rosy Schechter and John Hays from ARDC to talk about digital modes for ham radio, and what the ARDC is all about.![]()
Hi Rosy, welcome aboard!![]()
Hey thanks @Dan Maloney :)![]()
Hello All -- I am K7VE and the Outreach Manager for ARDC.![]()
Rosy is KJ7RYV and John is K7VE, BTW![]()
Hi John, welcome to the Hack Chat!![]()
Yep! I'm the Executive Director of ARDC![]()
Welcome everyone!![]()
So can we start off with maybe a little about yourselves, and how your ham radio journey got you to ARDC? And maybe a bit about ARDC too?![]()
Sure! @John Hays do you want to go first?![]()
Well, I can start about ARDC![]()
I had an interest in ham radio from a very early age, my cousins had stations. I was licensed in 1973 and progressed through all 5 license classes to Extra.![]()
Hi! This is KD9VFU. glad to be here on chat. I got my ham license very recently. I haven't even made my first contact. Maybe I am just radio shy :)![]()
I was an early adopter of digital amateur radio. I first got on packet radio in the late 1970s and became involved with AMPRnet shortly after it was created. AMPRnet was assigned a Class A IPv4 network (16 million addresses 44.x.x.x) and I became an address coordinator in multiple states as I moved around with work.![]()
ARDC's story started in 1981 when Hank Magnuski, KA6M, requested a block of IP addresses for use by licensed amateur radio operators worldwide. Magnuski had the foresight to see that internet-style networking would be the future and wanted the emerging amateur radio packet network to be able to participate. In answer to that request, Magnuski was assigned the class A 44/8 netblock of 16.7 million IP addresses.A group of volunteers informally administered this block of addresses, which was called AMPRNet, then later 44Net. ARDC was founded in October 2011 by the volunteers at the time, notably Brian Kantor, as a California nonprofit. The organization formally took over ownership and management of the address space.
In mid-2019, ARDC sold the 44.192.0.0/10 block of addresses, which includes about four million contiguous addresses. With the proceeds, ARDC established the endowment that we use to fund our grants program. In 2020, ARDC went from being a public charity to a private foundation.
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@Kaushlesh Chandel - Just do it! We have all been there.![]()
@Kaushlesh Chandel totally get it. I've been radio shy too. Have only made contacts with a friend helping.![]()
That was thinking amazingly far ahead for 1981!![]()
I joined ARDC as a volunteer, and joined staff in August of 2020 after a long career in the computer industry.![]()
My journey into amateur radio actually started with ARDC. My background is in nonprofit management / design / curriculum development. When Brian Kantor died suddenly in late 2019, a board member that I had worked with before reached out to see if I could help. I've been with ARDC since July 2020.![]()
@Dan Maloney it really was.![]()
Hank is still on our Grants Advisory Committee :)![]()
As the Outreach Manager, I coordinate our participation in various ham venues (hamfests and such) and do presentations for groups and podcasts. And now Hackchat!![]()
hi @steve.stroh+hackchat :)![]()
I also participate on our Grants Advisory Committee (as non-voting member). @steve.stroh+hackchat is on that committee as is Hank and 8 other very experienced amateur operators. (A license is not required to volunteer, but it turns out everyone is!)![]()
Yep. We're always looking for cool projects to fund. I'm curious what folks on this thread are working on and / or what kinds of projects they'd like to see in the Ham Radio Universe.![]()
Thanks to everyone at ARSC for all the hard work that's been goin on to help keep the future of ham radio alive!![]()
The grants program provides funding to non-profit projects with a requirement for Open Source/Open Access to developed technology. Our mission is to advance amateur radio and certain digital communications through support of Amateur Radio, Education, and R&D.![]()
Oops. ARDC![]()
happy to do it @fetch872![]()
@Kaushlesh Chandel - I'm not too comfortable on the mic either, so I stick mainly to digital modes![]()
And what about CW?![]()
Hi there! I’m about to get my license in October this year. I can’t wait to experiment with WSPR and to build a FT8 transmitter/beacon like the one outlined by Dan… in his great $50 ham series![]()
We also are very interested in improving the demographics of Amateur Radio, with aspirations to increase the number of youth, women, and underrepresented groups in the hobby and have taken an active role in supporting such initiatives to grow those numbers.![]()
@Rosy Schechter in full disclosure, I'm part of one of the cool projects ARDC has helped. M17project.org![]()
What sort of projects have been grantees? Anything we might recognize?![]()
oh cool @fetch872! We love M17![]()
@Jan Weber - Good luck on your test. Our Communications manager, Dan KB6NU publishes study guides including a PDF of his Technician study guide. https://www.kb6nu.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/2018-no-nonsense-tech-study-guide-v1-1.pdf![]()
oh man, we've funded so many things! https://www.ampr.org/grants/ Let me see....![]()
My personal favorite ARDC grant was this small project :-) https://www.ampr.org/grants/2021-grants/grant-mit-radio-society-radome-renewal/![]()
@John Hays I agree on increasing the youth on ham radio. My teenager son was watching Stranger Things show on Netflix. Kids in that show use a radio to talk to each other. And I had to explain to him what radio is and how it works. Made me realize schools/ science dont talk about Ham radio at all to kids.![]()
@steve.stroh+hackchat that's a great project![]()
we've also supported GNU Radio https://www.ampr.org/grants/2022-grants/grant-gnu-radio-usability-enhancements/![]()
Is ARDC supporting VARA and Winlink ? Our RedCross here in Phoenix are using it for emergency communications.![]()
@steve.stroh+hackchat I see that radome every time I travel to Cambridge!![]()
@John Hays : thanks!![]()
Oh, right -- saving the radome! I think I wrote about that...![]()
@fetch872 I met with the lead M17 developer last month in Germany -- we hope to see more great developments in the future -- https://www.ampr.org/grants/2021-grants/grant-m17-open-protocol/![]()
Is Emcomm a focus for ARDC? There is a lot of momentum in using Winlink when no internet is available. Do you provide grants for those types of projects?![]()
M17 seems like an answer to one of my outstanding questions. What does the path to adoption look like?![]()
Hi![]()
@k2lct -- unfortunately VARA is closed source -- we would love to see an open source project that provided it's capabilities.![]()
We've also funded AMSAT: https://www.ampr.org/grants/2022-grants/grant-develop-a-3u-open-source-cubesat-space-frame-with-deployable-solar-panels/![]()
@Dan Maloney : As a big fan of your $ 50 ham series, let me ask: will there be more installments to come?![]()
@jrork M17's adoption is in the hands of the Amateur Radio community. We are looking for both hardware and software implementations, and there are several viable options today.![]()
@edneely - EMCOMM is not a primary focus, but we have funded a number of projects that support emcomm.![]()
Guys let me to know best source to learning hacking![]()
If you know anywhere![]()
Not sure if folks have heard of SF Wireless Emergency Mesh, but we've funded them too: https://www.ampr.org/grants/2021-grants/grant-building-a-wireless-backbone-in-the-high-sierras/![]()
@Jan Weber - Thanks! And quite likely, although not when the weather is as nice as it is now. Ham stuff for me tends to be a cool weather pursuit.![]()
@ANONYKING - Wrong kind of hacking.![]()
Are there any improvements planned for AMPRnet? Is there still only one router advertising 44.?![]()
An open source VARA-like or Pactor-like solution would be great. Is anyone working on that?![]()
Is there any specific future goal for ARDC or is it more just being an enabler of lots of projects doing new and interesting things?![]()
@Dan Maloney what's is on your mind dude![]()
We would love to fund more projects like M17 and would welcome a proposal to develop a VARA compatible open source implementation.![]()
@John Hays , Woj sends his regards![]()
@KC1AWV I'll be writing about my take on M17's "adoption is in the hands of the Amateur Radio community." in this week's issue of Zero Retries - https://zeroretries.substack.com.![]()
@Steve Miller - The 44 space has several subnets which BGP advertise directly to the Internet.![]()
@steve.stroh+hackchat Excellent, I look forward to reading it.![]()
@Dan Maloney : Not necessarily so. Antenna building is nicer in summer :)![]()
@John Hays You mean VARA Link?![]()
@Dan Maloney Count me as a big fan of your Cheap Ham series. You do a great job of making Amateur Radio approachable and relevent to the the Hackaday crowd.![]()
Agree with John that the focus is not EMCOMM, but it's such a big part of so many clubs, that we do end up supporting quite a few of those projects. We've also supported some repeater projects that are used for emergency communications. It's important that grant applicants show that they will use equipment on a regular basis, not only in the event of an emergency.![]()
@ANONYKING - We don't do that kind of hacking here, and the Hack Chat is now being used to talk about ham radio digital modes. Please respect our guests and stick to the topic at hand.![]()
Our Technical Advisory Committee is actively looking at the infrastructure and policies for the future of the address space.![]()
@Jan Weber - That's true. I've actually got an EFHW that came down in a windstorm last year that I need to put back up.![]()
Where can we find more info on the $50 ham series?![]()
@jrork - https://hackaday.com/series_of_posts/the-50-ham![]()
@hspil that's a great question. Right now it really is about seeing what cool projects come across our door, and doing what we can to keep amateur radio alive![]()
and thriving!![]()
@jrork: https://hackaday.com/series_of_posts/the-50-ham/![]()
Ah, too slow![]()
As Rosy said, we want to see projects that are active, we aren't interested in stockpiling "just in case" of an emergency.We also want open access, so if we fund a repeater for example, it needs to be open to the general amateur population (you can invite membership/donations but it can't be a 'pay to play' system).
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I have two thoughts... might be silly/stupid1. Make it easier for kids to get their ham license
2. Build a digital module/device that links with a mobile phone, making it easy to use digital modes to chat or drop audio messages.
Its hard to imagine new gen taking all that pain to make ham radio and digital modes work.
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We are relatively young grant making foundation and we are learning a lot as we go. We put refinements in our instructions and guides for grant applications as we go and are also improving our processes as the requests get more competitive.![]()
@Dan Maloney ok sir![]()
@ANONYKING I would suggest getting a handheld radio and seeing if you can introduce a microcontroller onto the motherboard to remotely control it or add some automation. Perhaps even doing this onto a QRP Pixie transceiver.![]()
Our grant making is currently about $6 million a year, but we have more opportunities than that so we have to rank proposals to fund the better ones.![]()
@Kaushlesh Chandel not stupid at all. I definitely think that there is an opportunity that relates to using a mobile phone. Kids need on ramps, and they love their phones and devices.![]()
@Kaushlesh Chandel This device does as you suggest - https://store.mobilinkd.com/products/mobilinkd-tnc3. Like almost all small manufacturers, this one has been impacted by the electronic components shortage, but it's a "TNC" that can easily be cabled to a portable radio, and linked to a mobile phone (Apple iDevice at the moment).![]()
@Kaushlesh Chandel tnc with Bluetooth to mobile device songs possible.![]()
@Steve Stroh N8GNJ the TNC3 again lol . Gonna set up a chat with you and @KC1AWV and myself![]()
